Interview with Nekrowinter by Dave Wolff
Introduce the band by describing your sound and recounting the process of making your debut CD, "One Nation Underground".
Austyn Fain: We’re a five piece metal band hailing from Versailles, Kentucky. We don’t necessarily have a sound pinpointed as we experiment with different styles and genres, but if we were to try, we’d probably say Nekrowinter is a crossover of System of a Down and Cannibal Corpse.
But truly, it’s an amalgamation of multiple different influences. Andy [Anderson, vocals/bass] brings a lot of the Pantera and grunge. Austyn’s [Fain, guitar] style is a blackened groove mix of Gojira, Behemoth, and Korn. Forrest’s [Parrott, drums] drumming brings a versatile mix of technicality, like Tool or System, but also funky beats, as well as pulverizing death metal ones. He also brings a flavor of sung vocals in the same vein as System. [Justin, guitar] Goff brings the neoclassical, with guitar virtuoso influences such as Jeff Loomis, and Jason Richardson. And Donnie [Helme, vocals] brings the Amon Amarth styled gutturals, blended with harrowing black metal screams. Ultimately, we don’t really try to conform to any genre, or subgenre. We just do what we think sounds cool, and run with it.
When we were making “One Nation Underground”, we wrote everything together at practice, much of which was made by simply jamming, liking what we played, and calling it a song after a few refinements. When it came to recording, we went to our friend Richard’s to track the drums, then recorded the guitars in house, as well as produced it. It’s definitely a rough project, because we didn’t know a whole lot about miking, mixing and mastering at that time, but for a first attempt, we think we did decent enough and have only learned from it.
There are many bands today combining different subgenres of heavy metal or different genres of music in general. This experimenting has been going on since the 2000s. How do the members of Nekrowinter fuse their tastes in a way that’s unique to the band?
AF: I would say what makes Nekrowinter’s blend of genres and styles unique is our willingness to mix what at first doesn’t seem like it would work in a single song. Like Caribbean drum patterns leading up to a punk rhythm, such as in “Vuelo de los Abejorros”. Reggae verses with heavy, muted breaks in between from “Psychothymia”. Or a polka section played in 9/8 from a song we have on our upcoming third. We like taking unconventional approaches when writing songs. Even just jumping around throughout each album, we never stick to a single subgenre. One song might sound like blackened death metal, the next will be an Andrew W.K. disco anthem. We don’t have rules or anything, other than it needs to be fun to play and sound good.
Typically when writing, we come up with a core riff, then write around the idea. Any of the guitar players will come up with a riff, we’ll see how it feels to play by jamming it, then further embellish it from there. Once the skeleton is done (core guitars, drums, bass), we hand it over to Goff for whatever sections need leads or a solo, and let him do his thing, while the rest of us (mostly Forrest) come up with lyrics, and then Donnie tracks his vocals.
What is the connection between the band's name and the direction in which your music is heading?
AF: Our music has become progressively more complex, refined, and melodic. As time goes on the riffs have become more challenging and the solos have become more beautiful in their composition. The name Nekrowinter is derived from the idiom the dead of winter, when it's the darkest and coldest it could be. I'd say that just like the winter storm our music has only further gravitated towards being harsher and more unforgiving.
What is the importance of your songwriting being fun to play? Does this make your unconventional approach more personal? When you play in front of an audience, how does your musicianship reflect this?
AF: I think making the songs more fun to play makes them less of a chore to go through. Sometimes adding in an unconventional section that includes a different genre of music whether it be jazz or salsa gives the song a more unique personality than if it was just purely a generic metal song. However I'd say that we always aim to make our songs heavy and melodic so that they still maintain that quality expected in metal.
When playing in front of an audience the unique compositions of the songs might stand out more to your average listener in addition to how into the song the band gets while playing it. There's always moments of high intensity whether it be playing through a breakdown that suddenly switches time signatures or a complex riff that catches the ear. The composition of the songs that we've made recently reflects that intensity and I think the audience really feels that same connection that you do when you're playing in front of them.
How does Goff approach soloing and selecting sections for the solos? Does he follow the mood or add a personal touch, or does it depend on the song?
Justin Goff: Typically I'm given the region where the solo is supposed to be. As for how I approach it, I will feel it out and write one purely through improvisation and then work out the kinks if something doesn't fit. My other method is to learn the rhythm itself, write it out in Guitarpro and then compose through the software before trying to record it, and changing things if they are not possible to play or don't fit. The mood does come into play for songs like “Malevolent Monkeys” where it's purposefully supposed to be chromatic and all over the place where as for other songs I might try to write something that fits the overall feeling of the song like in “Make Us Whole” where I tried to create a solo that sounded like the ost from the game to really capture the essence of fear and dread that you'd get while playing the game to match the song.
What method does Donnie use to incorporate his vocals into the song structure? Not only in terms of gutturals, but also in terms of diction and phrasing?
JG: Donnie tends to enunciate his words at about 2/3 to sometimes half the speed of his normal speaking for cadence. His gutturals specifically are a case by case basis when it comes to how the song is written and structured. Generally speaking, he prefers to try the approach of slow and methodical rhythms for verses and may speed up and enunciate less when choruses come or if the tempo calls for it. Mostly just adapting and seeing what sounds right and clear, which is his main focus as a metal vocalist.
How much did the band learn about miking, mixing and mastering with work was completed with “One Nation Underground”?
AF: Working on the first album, we definitely learned that you have no idea what you’re doing until you’re doing it. We went in with a plan, and much of it did not go the way we thought, leaving us to improvise and invent solutions to problems we never had considered. Like the bottom snare mic cutting out halfway through the drum tracking, forcing us to ditch that entire track for consistency, or the guitars sounding too far away from the rest of the song, due to our positioning of the mic, so we topped the guitars off with BIAS FX recordings. But forward on from the first album, we took note of these issues and prevented them for the second and third albums.
How does your approach to songwriting and composing resonate with scenes in Versailles, Kentucky since “One Nation Underground” came out? What is the title’s significance?
AF: At most shows, people said they dug what we played, many of which claiming they loved how we stood out based on the unconventional song structures and genre flipping. But I don’t think we necessarily made a big enough splash for me to say it resonated with any scenes, and I’ll be honest, I can’t really see us fitting in with most scenes due to our unwillingness to conform to a single style. But that’s fine, it’s all about the music at the end of the day.
Now to the naming of “One Nation Underground”. Honestly, it just sounded cool and fit most of the songs we wrote on the album. We took a socio-political approach to the lyrics and wanted to shine a light on many issues we’ve seen in the United States, and gave it a rather doom-and-gloom conclusion, hence the title. But really, if we could go back in time, or even remake the album, we’d rename it to be self-titled, because “One Nation Underground” doesn’t hit the same as it did back then.
Though you don’t “fit in” with any particular scene, will thinking outside the box help you reach listeners elsewhere in the United States and abroad? It's become common for bands to combine genres to such an extent that they cannot be classified.
Forrest Parrott: Fitting into a particular genre or classification was never really a goal for us; in fact, quite the opposite. We want to make metal, of course, but throwing the listener for a loop and hearing something they never knew they wanted is our bread and butter. For instance, “Vuelo de los Abejorros” is Latin/salsa and metal, and I'm sure that on some level, this concept would be intriguing to certain listeners. It can start off as “huh, I wonder what that sounds like” to becoming an unironically enjoyable style that they just accept. As far as appealing to more people, all bands hope for that, but we aren't interested in conforming ourselves in such a way that would increase the likelihood of popularity or financial gain. We're just all about the art.
What motivated the band to take a socio-political stance with their lyrics? In addressing certain issues that were not widely discussed in the past, what is the band's purpose?
FP: Typically I like to write more personal lyrics, sharing stories from my past, my own opinions and perspectives on whatever topics I'm discussing. But with a band, I feel like that's really egocentric and may not represent everyone, so the scope has to be broadened to encompass more possibilities, wider and more general issues that more people may be experiencing. I don't want Nekrowinter to be an avenue for my whining about personal issues, it needs to be bigger than just me, so I do my best to take more worldly concepts and explore them. As far as the purpose with the lyrics, I always employ the same rules with every word I write.
1. It has to be explainable by me (no word salads, no “the audience can interpret it however they want”)
2. It has to fit thematically and logically (no “vibes” lyrics)
3. It has to fit musically (rhythmically and melodically)
4. It cannot be tryhard, tropey, generic lyrics about death and devastation and genocide or, God forbid, the devil
A lot of metal, in my personal opinion, doesn't have very good lyrics. Usually they fit, they convey the aggression well, but they don't stand up to any linguistic scrutiny, and I cannot abide this with my own work. The lyrics have to be as poetic and intricate as the music. So that's sort of my purpose with the lyrics, is to share the idea as clearly and artistically as I can, without digging into bargain bin colloquialisms and trite nonsense.
On "One Nation Underground", what issues does the band address and how deep does the band dive into them?
FP: Oh man it's been a long time since I've even listened to the first album. Honestly, we didn't go too deep on any of those songs, we were just getting our feet wet and figuring out who we wanted to be as a band, but I'll give this a shot.
First song is just an introduction that references every other song's general ideas on the album. “Conquer Create Kill” is about how war is bad, “Enslaved” is about how addiction is damaging, and those three are probably amongst the least interesting songs we've ever made, I think. The album is largely chronological so the quality gets better the further you go.
“Manufactured Outrage” is where it gets good, talking about spineless, chronically online dweebs who pretend to be activists but make zero impact on the world. “Digital Zombie” is about how technology has addled us into complacency, and I believe Austyn wrote that one if I'm remembering correctly. “Enemagizer”, a portmanteau of “enema” and the battery brand “Energizer”, is the first of our unofficial “righteous violence” series. “White Hood Genocide” is the other track that follows this phenotype, where an abhorrent group (child predators and the KKK, respectively) are killed for their evil actions.
“Infernal Maelstrom” is about Earth retaliating against humanity for us abusing her. “Inside the Mind” is more contentious, as it explores the potential motivations and mindset of a school shooter. I stressed to the band that we had to be careful with this one because I didn't want to make the character sympathetic. I wanted to brush up against “justifiable” reasons for committing such a crime, but always pulling back and condemning it instead.
“Vuelo” is just dumb fun. I'm really not a fan of politics, and especially not political art because it's so very fleeting. So we envisioned a world where Trump's wall surrounds America, and every album, a new animal menace breaches it and wreaks havoc in the country. We've had giant bees, Vietnam veteran penguins, and we have no intention of stopping there.
The last two songs are where we really hit our stride. “Curse of Lordran” is about the video game Dark Souls, and is probably one of our most popular songs we've ever made. It really encapsulates everything about our style and common tactics we use when arranging a new song. “Cosmic Indifference” is about humanity's relative insignificance in the grand scheme of things, sort of a Lovecraftian exploration of our own meaninglessness.
So overall, a hodgepodge of ideas, but it paved the way for more coherent ideas in the future, and that's what's important really.
It sounds like an interesting concept to combine Lovecraftian themes with ideas about humanity's place in the universe. During the writing of “Cosmic Indifference”, did you give much thought to this? On what stories by Lovecraft did you draw your inspiration?
FP: Not any story in particular, but his overall concept of Cosmicism. Cosmic horror is rooted strongly in the idea that, if humanity were wiped from the face of the earth, it wouldn't matter. The horror is in our own meaninglessness and lack of true control in the face of universal forces, and that's what I wanted to tap into with “Cosmic Indifference”. Also, Goff is super into Lovecraft and, at the time, I was entirely unfamiliar with his work and outlook, so that song was written after a Clifnotes-level crash course on the idea. I've since read “The Shadow Over Innsmouth” and “The Color Out Of Space” and enjoyed them immensely.
What about “The Shadow Over Innsmouth” and “The Color Out Of Space” resonated with you? As someone who recently discovered Lovecraft's writings, are you interested in any of his other stories? Do you know of any other writers from that era?
FP: Mostly just the way that he crafted the world and described the mental state of the characters. It's been quite a while since reading it so I don't recall a lot of it, but I remember being enamored by the way Lovecraft conveyed the inner monologue of the main character, and the strange incidents occurring to them. I'd be down to read some more, sure. I started “The Dunwich Horror” but lost interest shortly into the story.
I'm not a huge reader these days, but I loved Orson Scott Card's “Ender's Game” series, lots of Stephen King, and Michael Crichton's work. As far as other authors from Lovecraft's era, I'm not really familiar with any of them.
Do you have any involvement in the writing of lyrics for the band's second full-length album “Arctic Armageddon”? In order to come up with ideas and concepts for each song, was the same amount of thought put into them?
FP: I am the chief lyricist, although we write as a group; sort of like one person driving while everyone else suggests directions and throws out ideas. And no, I'd say probably triple the thought and effort was put into the second album, and not just lyrically. We wanted every aspect to hit harder and be vastly improved, and I feel that we achieved that.
Lyrically, it took a much higher mental and emotional toll on me. With an increase in quality comes an increase in research, which was very unfortunate for songs like “Anonymous”, which is about the Dark Web. Some of the stories I read about it were so deeply unsettling and disturbing, I honestly had trouble reading them.
Rammstein's “Mein Teil” is actually about Der Metzgermeister, a German man who was sexually gratified by eating people, and he found a man on the Dark Web who was willing to comply. Signed a waiver, filmed himself agreeing to the act, and they went through with it. And this is TAME compared to some of the other stories. I do NOT recommend that particular rabbit hole.
“Die On The Volga” is another one that took a lot more research than most, since I'm not a history buff and it's about the battle of Stalingrad. Donnie is all about history and he wanted a song about that since it's the deadliest single battle on record, and there I was, watching “Enemy At The Gates” with him and reading Wikipedia, trying to figure out how to work it all into an existing instrumental. It was a much more intensive process, and honestly, the third album is even deeper and more complicated.
I've researched the Dark Web at Youtube, and from what I found I know I should avoid it. Der Metzgermeister was one of the accounts I heard about, along with other, far worse ones. How does “Anonymous” reflect what you’ve read?
FP: “Anonymous” is a cautionary tale of how curiosity kills the cat, so really just outlining the horrors of that world was enough to satisfy me, personally. I feel like, if that song's lyrics don't deter you from investigating the Dark Web, you were bound to become involved with it regardless.
Once the song was completed, how thoroughly did you and Donnie represent the Battle of Stalingrad in “Die on the Volga”?
FP: I feel like we did an okay job. That battle is infamous and many songs have been written about it, so I didn't feel like we were treading any new ground, honestly. It's history, so beyond the trope of "look how evil humans are," there wasn't a lot of subtext I could glean from it.
My goal with lyrics is always to have a “stupid layer” and a “subtext layer”. The stupid layer is for the average listener who isn't interested in delving deeper; i.e. “Legion of Spiders” is about a big spider from space that kills people. However, the subtext layer is for the more attentive audience who likes to read in between the lines, so Legion is also about the folley and fallout of trickle-down economics and wage slavery in the modern day. With “Volga”, we didn't really have an avenue to do both layers, so it's just a non-fictional recounting of events, which isn't really the sort of song I typically try to write.
Did the songwriting on “Arctic Armageddon” cover a similar range of genres as the previous album? Or did you wish to experiment with any additional styles of music?
FP: So this is actually one of the most important questions of all, because it hits the heart of what Nekrowinter strives to be and create. I have a solo project on the side where I blend genres in a much more experimental manner, but when we started the band I said I wanted to incorporate that aspect into our work.
Consequently, “Psychothymia” is reggae and metal, “Vuelo” is Latin/salsa and metal, “Pummelled By Patriotic Penguins” is old school punk metal with a black metal bridge, etc. This is a continuing trend and we will always try to fold more genres into our foundational style. It makes it a bit harder to classify us, but that was never our goal to begin with. We want to be ourselves, be a little weird, but be fun and satisfying and artistic as well.
I'd say that the second album had a bit more out-there sounds, but it was still very centered on metal and its various subgenres. “Chaotic Symmetry” has lots of death metal influences, “Divided We Fall” sounds a lot like more “southern” metal bands such as Pantera, “White Hood Genocide” has a ton of slam and deathcore elements in it, and “Valley Of Eternal Frost” is very much thrash and melodic black metal.
The only real “constant” variable is progressive elements. We play with lots of odd time signatures: 9/8 in “Legion of Spiders” and “Dracula's Curse”; 7/4 in “White Hood”; the finale, “Cataclysm From The Stars”, has so many changes I'm having trouble remembering them all; and of course this doesn't even include less blatant examples, such as metrically modulating from 3/4 to 4/4 (so the quarter note pulse doesn't change but the emphatic beats DO), which is a frequent component we utilize when structuring the piece.
There are definitely more progressive rhythms than melodic bits. The first two albums didn't do anything like key changes, any common color chords beyond maybe some majors and minors (no 7ths, 9ths, sus4's or anything on the more advanced side), but that wasn't our focus, really. That kind of stuff is awesome, we are aware of it and are going to play with it in the future; it just didn't happen yet.
I could go on, but fundamentally, this willingness to explore and play with sometimes seemingly contradictory aspects of music keeps us sounding fresh and interesting, which is the ultimate goal. If we wanted to fit in and sound like what people expect, we absolutely could...but we aren't interested in being that band.
Did you draw inspiration from prog rock bands like Rush, Yes or King Crimson when writing off time signatures? Or from other sources?
FP: I'm aware of Rush and King Crimson, never heard of Yes. The time signatures are more of a product of Tool and System of a Down, for my part. Tool was hugely inspirational for my interest in odd times, and I've since found more bands like Between the Buried and Me, Glass Casket, Dave Brubeck, Sungazer, and others that use truly strange signatures well that I like thinking about and trying out. For instance, we've since dipped our toes into 11/8, 15/16, and swung 5/8, so we are constantly getting weirder and weirder with it as time goes on.
In the past few years, how many more metal and nu metal bands have begun composing with off signatures? How likely do you think more bands will begin writing in this manner? How about other subgenres of metal, such as symphonic metal and melodic death metal?
FP: I don't listen to a ton of metal these days, I'm more into classical and jazz at the moment. I know there are a lot of newer technical death metal bands like The Zenith Passage that are doing some interesting stuff, but I can't really comment on the trend since I don't follow it.
We aren't personally going to try out symphonic metal because of playing to a metronome and having backing tracks. Too many variables, too much can go wrong, and it isn't our vision, but I do like that sound. As far as tech death, we have begun playing around in that style ourselves. As far as drums go, I don't use triggers, so a lot of the super-fast double kick work is out of my reach, but again, that was never our goal anyway.
Does your taste for classical music include movie soundtracks by composers like Basil Poledouris and Jerry Goldsmith, to give examples?
FP: I'm not familiar with their work, but I really like John Williams... despite his potential plagiarism. I've since gone back and listened to Gustav Holst and was amazed at how obvious his contribution to film score truly was. Goff and I even went to see the Cincinatti Orchestra perform his Planets suite live, which was fantastic.
When did the band become more serious about playing in the signatures you mentioned? What is the best way to arrange them so that they are in harmony with each member's influences?
FP: We've always dabbled in odd signatures, but each album features more of it, so I guess we're going more out there each time we produce an album. As far as the influences go, it isn't really a conscious process. A lot of the time we'll take an existing section and chop off a beat, giving us an odd time signature. It's all about increasing variety and keeping the song interesting, so we never force it or do anything so weird that it clashes with the overall feel of the track. It's less about individual influences and more about what the piece at hand needs in order to be fully realized.
How did your listeners respond to “Arctic Armageddon”? Are you planning to writing material as intensively as in the past for future recordings?
FP: Everybody loved “Arctic Armageddon”, from what I've heard, so hopefully this next album will garner a similar response. And yes, we've absolutely worked harder on the new set of songs than we ever did before. Better compositions, lyrics, mixing and mastering, and performances overall was the goal, and I feel that it's definitely shaping up to be the best one yet.
-Dave Wolff
