Interview with Darren Smallman of Dez Dare
Your bio mentions how social media diverts people's attention from what they miss and what they should value in their lives, and compares suburbia to the seventh circle of hell. Can you elaborate on these points?
Diversion: This is bigger than just social media. It is the way the world works. Digital media. The 24-hour news cycle. Depleted attention spans. I am in the same position, my attention span is terrible and I am exhausted by the constant flood of information. I am actively trying to consume less but it isn't easy with all the information flowing into our devices each second. Switch off for even half an hour, grab a coffee or wine, watch the world go by.
The suburbs: Yeah, I have nothing against the suburbs, but they are not for me. I grew up in them, and tried the country for a while. I am a city bird. I love the culture and anonymity of the city. Everything I need in a short walk.
Do you believe life was simpler before social media and the stream of knowledge that now pervades our world? How can you determine the difference between authentic and fraudulent news?
Simpler no, less intense yes. Humans haven't changed that much in the last 100K years. We have new toys but we are still the same at our most basic; en masse a destructive and aggressive animal. Just have a look at the way we keep treating each other, generation after generation, with each fall of each civilization. How to decipher nonsense from fact? Research and objectivity. Conversation with others that don't share your view. Sitting in bubbles perpetuates myths and untruths. We have to engage to understand. We have to be vigilant.
Which city or cities have you lived in to date? What components of city culture have always interested you? And how does anonymity factor into your taste for city life?
I have lived all over. I grew up in Geelong, just outside Melbourne and was born in Brisbane. I spent most of my adult life in Australia living in Melbourne. I lived in the Goldfields area of Victoria Australia for a bit, in Guildford and Daylesford. I have lived in Copenhagen, London, Tunbridge Wells and now Brighton. Brighton and Melbourne being my faves. I have always been fascinated with people watching and city life. Watching the rush of people scurry by. I have always been an artistic person. Started with art and brass bands, then to bands in the 90s. Different cultures make life interesting, food, drink, music, film. All available in the cities at all times. I like anonymity because I am Autistic and not always super social. If I want to find something to do or someone to hang out with I can, or I can just hang out by myself with little interruptions.
How did you initially become engaged in your local punk scene, and what made you see punk as a valid representation of your worldview at the time?
It wasn't really punk that got me into music as such, it was misfits. I never really felt like I fitted in at school. Me and my mates started skate boarding and diversifying our music tastes. Back before the internet you had to find the other freaks in the wild and we all congregated around houses and the local band venue. It was a community. Whether you played indie, punk, metal, you hung out in the same group. As said I already played brass and mates of mine had got a gig with the bands Bored! and The Dirty Lovers at a biker pub in Geelong and they needed a bass player. I leant how to play in the four weeks before the show. I was fifteen and Cris and Ben were twelve and thirteen. That show was a revelation. Our parents had to come with us and it scared the fuck out of them, we loved it. Beer cans flying everywhere, people shouting and swearing at the bands (lovingly), loud as fuck. It was a new free world. We were shit but it start all of all paths into music and the creative world.
Speaking of misfits, do The Misfits appeal to you on this level? What are your thoughts on bands with political lyrics: Dead Kennedys, Crass, Bad Brains etc?
I meant misfits as in people, although I love The Misfits as well! Danzig not so much. Weirdos and misfits find each other, start bands, have a good time. U.S. and Australian punk was the main influence back in the early years. Wipers, Butthole Surfers, The Stooges, MC5, Dead Kennedys, Bad Brains, Redd Kross; outsider rock. There is something visceral about rock and punk, whether the bands are political, social, dumb, the feeling was what got you going. Feeling the sound reverberate off the walls and skull, the chaos of noise. Lyrics were always important but riffs came first.
What kept you interested in punk culture all these years, and how did it help you grow musically?
Never stopped listening to the old stuff, you just collect more cool sounds over the years and become a little less closed off with your taste. Great records are great records. Never let the good ones go.
How much growth have you seen in punk through the years?
How you define punk is important to this question. I don't see punk as a style or sound. It's an idea. It's rebellion. Anti Establishment. Any music that holds to these ideas, is punk. So the genre for me is very broad.
Despite the mainstream's narrow view of punk I always found it broad minded. Does media portray "punk stereotypes" more or less these days?
I think it is broader in general, but it depends who you speak to. I know a lot of people who sit on both sides of the debate.
What are the genres you gravitated towards in addition to punk?
I really love anything with a melody. Whether that is in a synth or guitar, vocal. Doesn't matter to me. Never really got loads into grind core or super-fast stuff... back beat and melody... and fuzz!!
How many bands have you worked in since you became a musician and how do you communicate your views through music and lyrics?
I was asked to join a mate’s band when I was fifteen. I had to learn the bass and six songs in a month! Warped was my first band, we were twelve, thirteen and fifteen. When I was in Geelong I had Warped, then Toad with Dave and Buzz from Bored!, then Thee Vinyl Creatures which were more melody driven. In Geelong we also had Nine Inch Nob that disfigured the Nine Inch Nails logo for comedic purposes and was Geelong's (maybe only!) first rap band. In Melbourne I had a couple of experimental indie bands called The Sound Platform and The Wells Collective. All available to listen to. As far as lyrics and music go, I am an absurdist. I sing about a lot of serious social and philosophical stuff but I try not to take the music or myself too seriously. Life is weird, art should be as well!
How much material did you release with those bands you mentioned? Do you have examples of lyrics you wrote for some of them? Where can they be found online?
I have released a lot of records over the years but did stop for fifteen years to run labels and move over to the UK. You can get all my back catalogue on streaming services and Bandcamp. There are even old CDs and vinyl on Discogs. I won't be sharing any lyrics that I wrote when I was in my teens (smile). Bandcamp has all Dez Dare and some of the other bands.
What labels were you running while working on new music? How many bands did you help and what did you learn about the industry?
From 1999-2010 I ran Low Transit Industries in Australia with my mate Simon Baird. We worked with bands like Black Mountain, Okkervil River, Trans Am, The Mendoza Line and Kim Salmon… a lot. I ran Battle Worldwide Recordings, working with bands like Co-pilgrim, Falling Stacks and Empty Pools. Worked with a lot of bands, helping with management, touring, publishing and label duties. I confirmed what I already knew about the industry, by being in it. If you want to do anything worthwhile and creative, you need to take risks and be hands on. Don't wait for someone else. Just make good shit and get it out.
Has Dez Dare always been a solo endeavor since its inception, or did you eventually begin collaborating with other musicians?
It started out as a digital online project in the pandemic with a mate in Australia and another in the U.S. They were busy and I got bored; it became me. I wouldn't say no to band members in the future. At present though it makes sense for touring. I couldn't afford to take a band on the road and I am enjoying the freedom of doing it myself.
Compared to composing with a band on digital media, how much creative freedom do you have as a solo musician? Is it freeing to be able to write on your schedule without having to communicate online?
Yeah, I love making stuff from scratch and building it up in the studio. You are never quite sure how something will turn out from that initial idea. Only drawback is you have to try to work out what the fuck you wrote after the fact to play shows!
What equipment did you furnish your home studio with to develop the sounds you want?
Weird shit, cheap guitars and noisy pedals. I have the basics there, a good computer with some OK preamps and mics. I love fuzzy, synthy pedals and old tape delay units. Can't go wrong with a cheap Japanese guitar or three as well!!
How time-consuming is it to arrange songs for live performances whenever you have the chance to play out?
Pretty quick and easy. I just drop out the lead vocals and the guitar parts I want to do live. The rest is already recorded.
Give an overview of the albums you have put out. Did certain labels assist with distribution, or were they all released independently?
I have put out five albums and three EPs. Most of it is released by my label CH!MP; I have worked with Six Tonnes De Chair in France and God Unknown Records. I help run God Unknown as well, and I and Jason do radio plugging and PR for other bands and labels.
How long have you been running your CH!MP label and helping out with God Unknown Records? Is Six Tonnes De Chair still active today?
Six Tonnes is run by the top type Laurent. CH!MP was set up for Dez Dare, although Battle Worldwide is still running as my publishing brand. I started with GU last year when I released my last record 'A Billion Goats. A Billion Sparks. Fin.' Jason and I got along well and decided to start doing some PR work together which included GU artists.
Your work has received feedback from magazines like Maximum Rock N Roll and The Wire. Were you expecting to be recognized by publications like those?
We all hope we get support from media and fans. I have worked with loads of bands that have deserved more and never received it. Considering what I do is quite weird, I am lucky I get the support I do and thanks to all those you come out to see me play and buy my records, thanks to all the reviewers and radio DJs.
I am working on the new record with God Unknown. I have Jonny Halifax playing lapsteel on a track and loads of backing vocals, Laura Loriga on backing vocals as well. Both are God Unknown label mates!
Is this your first collaboration with Jonny Halifax and Laura Longa, or have you worked with them on any of your previous releases?
Nope, first time. I work with them on the label side of things. Top peoples.
Describe the making of "CHERYL!" and tell us how close it is to your earliest vision for it. Any release starts with me fishing through my phone for the riffs I have recorded into it over the months. I start piecing them together in the studio and building a framework for the album. I usually have the name of the album and tracks at the same time as this. Then I build them all up... bass and drums... guitars, noises, synths... vocals always last. My least favorite thing to do is write lyrics. I really don't have much of a vision going in. I try to stay open. All I knew is I wanted it less cluttered and more direct. So the next record is gonna be weird!!
How much attention has your current song "Talk, Clown" received for the album since it was made available for streaming? What song did you previously release on video to promote the album?
Loads of video plays and some nice words from top types. Previous single was "Brutalised Robotics".
What kind of ideas have you been brainstorming for your next full length? Where have you been picking up inspiration along the way?
All I can say is my phone is filling up with ideas!
-Dave Wolff
