Interview with screenwriter LEE KOLINSKY by Dave Wolff

Interview with screenwriter LEE KOLINSKY

You are an award-winning screenwriter and active journalist. How long have you had a career in these fields and what interested you in getting involved in them?

I would say I made a career out of being a writer in several fields. I started as a journalist for about four years and changed careers to marketing and technical copy writer. Journalism gave me a base of how to structure a story quickly and making sure the point gets across to the reader within a paragraph of two. I have been writing screenplays for almost twenty years. Having them produced is another story. My goal was to have a career in writing and be creative. Movie writing is the ultimate place I want to be, but I believe in understanding the craft of writing as a whole. Writing is a skill that you can take anywhere.

Are you educated or self-educated when it comes to journalism and script writing? If it’s the former, where did you take classes to hone your abilities?

I went to New York Institute of Technology for journalism and screenwriting. I went there originally for filmmaking and screenwriting, but eventually decided I should be well rounded with all types of writing genres and thought journalism was a good start.

Were there any professors at NY Tech whose instruction was beneficial to you?

The professors were great at teaching the craft of writing. I wouldn’t say there was one that stood out to me. But my journalism professor really taught me how to get right to the point of my story and how you really need to catch the reader quickly.

Name some of the publications you wrote for in your four years as a journalist? How much did the experience help you?

I wrote for the local weekly newspapers called the Merrick Life and the Nassau Herald. I also worked for a publication that reported on advertising campaigns. Being a reporter gave me real-world experience. It revealed to me how people interact with each other within their roles as an educator, politician, or a local resident. It also taught me how hard it was to uncover information from people, depending on the situation. Feature stories, everyone wants to speak, but when it came to harder news stories, you had to gain a certain trust and hoped the info you needed came out.

Were your feature stories as informative as you wanted them to be? What were some of those stories written about?

They were mostly local stories based on the community. One was about school kids creating a quilt to be sent to a village in Africa. Another was about a guy who turned his basement into a living tribute to his family through photos. The community-based features were great to be a part of

How often did you accomplish acquiring the information you needed when writing more difficult news stories?

Research and relying on solid sources. Typically, harder news stories generate sources that are harder to find, but there is always someone who wants to tell their side of the story. They may be harder to find on some subjects, but with the proper research, you can find someone. 

What items were you most interested in covering as a journalist?

Feature stories are my favorite. You can be the most creative in that space. Not to say you can’t be creative with hard news, it can become depressing. The funniest feature I wrote was about Groundhog Day. It was a challenge to make a story that is reported on interesting. I think I did that.

Where did your inspiration to be a script writer come from two decades ago? Did specific movies help influence you back then?

My family owned a video store in the 80’s and that was huge influence. I also liked playing with G.I. Joe figures. I created stories with the Joes after I saw movies from the video store. I always played out a film called Ice Pirates. About a bunch of thieves in space. A great, strange movie. I guess I was always a writer of stories, but never put pen to paper until late in high school.

The movies that influenced me still influence me today. It was a mix of films including Superman, Flash Gordon, The Great Escape, The Magnificent Seven, The Wild Bunch, The Dirty Dozen, Return of the Dragon, The Chinese Connection. These are just a few of my favorite films that I wanted to emulate.

Tell the readers about the video store owned by your family in the 1980s. How much business did it do while it was open? Regarding this question, do any mom and pop video stores exist today that you know of?

The video store in its height, did really well. We had over 4000 titles and were known for having cult/rare films. We even had a subscription program. A customer could pay a yearly fee and rent as much as they wanted. Kind of like the Netflix model today. Our major issues were the price of the VHS tapes and competition. The bigger chains were able have more stock of the same title while the smaller guys could only stock one or two of the same film. There was also a race against cable. You had to make your money back on a tape before cable started showing the films on a regular rotation. I only know of one mom and pop store in Brooklyn, but not sure if it’s still there. I think mom and pops are pretty much a thing of the past.

Name the cult films you remember was available for rental at the store? Were many of them of the horror/gore/splatter variety from the U.S. and Italy?

The popular ones were Videodrome and The Toxic Avenger, but then you had ones like Silent Night, Deadly Night and My Bloody Valentine. Those definitely had the splatter and gore in them. Ones I really liked and remember were more Kung Fu and Sci-fi like Repo Man, Kill And Kill Again, Kill Squad, Dragon Vs Needles Of Death, Snake Fist Fighter, Space Hunter and Megaforce.

Are you a fan of the horror and splatter movies from those days? How have those genres changed since, considering such titles as torture porn?

I was not really a huge fan of the splatter films from back in the day. Mainly because they scared the crap out of me and I didn’t like that. Now, I am so desensitized to most of it, that I don’t mind watching it that much. The one genre I really don’t like to watch is serial killer films. That still gets me. Today’s horror films really don’t freak me out that much because they seem more fake to me. That may have to do with the story development. Overall, I think the major change may be story development or lack of it in most films. It also seems many characters are not as sympathetic or empathetic these days. It’s hard to care about a character who is not a great person in the first place.

Do you personally prefer the older or newer eras when it comes to sci fi, horror and superhero movies?

This is difficult for me to answer because I will always consider movies like Star Wars, Flash Gordon, Highlander, The Terminator, and Predator amazing films. And you simply have to acknowledge the fact that Lord Of The Rings and The Avengers are epic adventures. In my case, I also throw Underworld, Resident Evil, Gattaca and Moon into my mix of great current films. I think I have a special place for the older films, but really look forward to new ones.

What aspects of the movies you listed did you most want to emulate and reinterpret?

I like to emulate the bond a group of people have in the mists of a challenge. I would say most of the films I mentioned were classic underdog movies. I am also a very big crime writer. I have always been interested in what motivates a criminal.

What did the serials of the 30’s offer in terms of imagination and creativity? Have any aspects of those survive into the present?

I wasn’t much into those serials. I guess the ones that come to mind for me are the ones from the 40’s. Movies like White Heat, the Maltese Falcon and Casablanca. They offered a lot in creativity as far as I am concerned. The story and dialogue, the drama and scores. I think, depending on the filmmaker, there is still some of that influence today. The Usual Suspects reaches me as far as those types of movies.

Do you read any true crime publications for inspiration when writing your own storylines? Which do you peruse the most?

The news is pretty much where I read/hear a lot of information. Although I try not to dive into it that much because I want to keep things somewhat based in fantasy. I also don’t like capitalizing on a real story very much. My inspiration for a crime story is based on what I think I can get away with and that’s mostly rob banks and heists of some sort. Not that I could really do any of those things, but my imagination thinks it can.

Did you ever consider getting involved in filmmaking, or were your interests always in script writing?

I did get involved in filmmaking when I first started. But I always wanted to be a writer. I typically don’t want to be responsible for someone else’s equipment. I can’t begin to count how many times I tripped over a cable. I find it best to stick with typing. If I break a keyboard, it’s much cheaper to replace than a camera lens.

Do you remember the first scripts you wrote that were eventually made into movies? Name a handful of them.

When I was first writing screenplays, I would typically look for an agent and go through the proper Hollywood channels to see if it would be picked up. I applied to the top of screenplay contents and placed in the finals or semi-finals. I eventually had an agent, then didn’t have an agent. It’s very difficult to get a script produced, but I kept at it. I wrote about seven scripts in the beginning. All features. They were The Bishop, Sumtimes, Devil On The Run, Retrospect, Inbound, The Longshot and Cane’s Crossing. The script The Longshot got me my first production. The script wasn’t made, but I was able to write and produce a film with Fred Carpenter, a Long Island director, called The Blue Lizard. Years later he picked up my script Canes Crossing, which I had kept rewriting for years. That eventually became Send No Flowers starring Sean Young. From then on, most of my produced scripts have been shorts.

How did you first meet Fred Carpenter? Was he easy to work with when it came to adapting your scripts? How well did you and he work at producing together?

I first met Fred through my father and a photographer that they had in common named Abe Slomowitz. They gave me Fred’s number and I gave him a call and he said I should send him a script. He was very easy to work with. It was my first film and he took the lead on how to produce the film. I learned a lot of things especially on how to make sure everyone was fed. Food leads to happy cast and crew, he always said. And it’s a basic truth in indie filmmaking. 

What was the storyline of The Blue Lizard, and who appeared in the film? Was it shown locally or on a wider scale?

The film is about Nick, a mafia guy who is sent to investigate the theft of five million dollars taken from the Blue Lizard. He has to confront his old girlfriend during the investigation and tries to win her back. The film was shown locally at the time, then shelved due to music rights challenges.

What sort of music rights challenges are you referring to, or is this something you wouldn’t be disposed to discuss in this interview?

It’s fine. We were able to license the music for The Blue Lizard for a festival run, but not for widespread distribution. We thought we would be able to be picked up by a production house and they would pay the rights for us, but that didn’t happen, so we shelved the film after the festivals.

How faithful was Send No Flowers to the original script you wrote as Canes Crossing? What was the script and the film version about?

The fundamental story was kept intact. It’s about a mafia princess who tries to take over her father’s crew after he’s murdered. This design was both in the script and film. The script did have a bunch of changes, but that’s what happens when there are a lot of cooks in the kitchen. It’s difficult to keep script control when you’re not involved with it financially. As a screenwriter, you have to expect changes in your script whether it’s on an indie level or even Hollywood. I looked at that film as a platform which eventually introduced me to other local filmmakers including Steve Sage and Sean King. And that ultimately lead me to my production company Seven13 Films with Joseph Halsey. Seven13 Films is where I focus most of my time now.

What noteworthy movies has Steve Sage and Sean King worked on, that you think the readers would be interested in?

I met both of these guys on Send No Flowers. With Sean, we worked on two feature scripts and a short script. We created a teaser for our feature script Hunter’s Moon. It’s a werewolf film and takes place in the woods. It’s currently being shopped around. I hope it takes off because it’s a fun one. With Steve, he and I worked on several shorts. Bullified and Junkie Heaven are our most noteworthy. Junkie Heaven won a bunch of awards including best screenplay for me and best actor for Joseph Halsey. The film received a bunch of accolades. They can be seen on Amazon these days along with a few other films I worked on.

Describe your experience making Hunter’s Moon. Is anyone interested in picking it up yet?

The experience was fun. Sean King had a great idea about a bunch of guys heading to the woods on a trip who are met by werewolves. I believe it was a three day shoot in some cabin area on Long Island. To me, some of the best parts were watching how they made the wolf and a baby wolf. It was done the old fashioned way. They made the effects, no computer graphics. I was blown away by it. The set was very professional. Sean is pitching the script, we hope it catches with someone. I believe we did have some interest at a point.

Were there any aspects of werewolf legend written into the script for Hunter’s Moon? If so, where did you research it?

The full moon scenario was the biggest part of the legendary story we used. The rest, we kind of went slightly different. It’s basically a bonding film that goes horribly wrong.

Was Hunter’s Moon the first supernatural themed film you worked on, or were there others?

Junkie Heaven has some supernatural elements to it. I would say that and Hunter’s Moon were my first produced super natural films. I wrote a bunch of other scripts that had the element in it, but they were high budget feature scripts that are difficult to make.

How did your meeting with Steve Sage and Sean King lead to the formation of Seven13 Films? What genre movies does this production company release and distribute?

I would say it’s building blocks. Filmmaking is about meeting people. Networking is a key phrase people use in every industry, but in filmmaking, you look to build relationships that can lead to something you never knew could be possible. It’s highly creative and you have to be open to new opportunities.

When Steve and I developed Junkie Heaven, I met Joseph Halsey. At the time he liked the script and I thought he would be great for the role. But our relationship as filmmakers grew after the production. I had brought him in a mafia short called Stand Up Guy. At some point, we just realized we had the same ideas about quality and integrity in our work and decided to create seven13 films. We currently developed a script called Black Like Me, about an autistic boy who is shot by the police. We are currently pitching that around. But our pride and joy so far is our docuseries Generation Change. We filmed our first segment called “If I Were Mayor” which asks at-risk youths about what they would do if they were mayor of the city of Trenton. It is moderated by Good Morning America’s Adrienne Bankert. Joe, who grew up in the area, has really been able to get city leaders educators and law enforcement officials behind us. We are currently pitching this around as well as raising money for the next segment. The company has been around for over a year and we have been building a brand as well as developing content. Not easy things to do. It takes a long time to develop, but we have really leapt in progress.

Have you found any companies who would be interested in adapting Black Like Me?

At this point we haven’t pitched Black Like Me due to working on Generation Change. That took over most of our focus recently, but we have put it in some screenplay contests.

How did the idea of making Generation Change gestate and begin to grow? Has the first episode aired anywhere yet?

My partner Joe and I were discussing moving away from fiction at the time. We were trying to figure out as a company what we wanted to do. We thought providing films that meant something to people on a personal level was the way to go. We spoke about making a documentary and Joe suggested Trenton, New Jersey, where he grew up would be a good start, due to the trouble the city has. Plus, he could give back to his city through awareness and by helping others. As I researched what the city has been going through, it just isn’t right to see how a city could have so many problems and I have seen it elsewhere throughout the country. I am somewhat politically aware and it trouble me to see good people who work hard barely make a living and give in to a broken system. I feel that if you get enough people behind a cause, local government can be the catalyst for changing a city, state and make nation better for it. As for airing Generation Change, we are currently working on that. However, it has been shown to educator, city officials, and played at a couple of film festivals.

Where are you making public appearances to promote Seven13 Films? Do these include local filmmaking conventions?

We have promoted seven13 film at a couple of film festivals, radio shows. Our biggest event to date has been at Rider University in New Jersey. We were the subject of Kathy Magrino’s COM Class and they helped create an event that brought Trenton Mayoral Candidates to the University to speak with some of the youth of Trenton. We spoke about seven13, they showed Generation Change, and that was followed by what we called a Youth Symposium. It was very successful.

How well was Generation Change received at the Rider University show?

We had over two hundred attendees, four Trenton mayoral candidates and about twenty students asking questions to those candidates. The President of the University came down to the event along with the Dean and the department heads. There was a buzz about the event for days prior and afterwards.

How much media coverage did your event at Rider University get when you were there? How much about seven13 did you get to reveal to the attendees?

We made the front cover of the New Jersey Trentonian and was on NJ.com among a few other publications. Seven13 films was featured a lot in the program. We had a featurette shown that interviewed myself and Joe Halsey. It discussed what we’re looking to do as a company and what we want to do for the community. We also both spoke in front of the attendees discussing the events that were about to happen in the evening. Seven13 played a big role in the event.

How often have you promoted Seven13 during radio appearances? Which of your radio interviews was most memorable?

We promote seven13 every time we get a chance. It’s the brand Joe and I are proud of and we feel it can develop into something great. The consistent message is what we are looking to create. We think we are achieving it so far. Most memorable interview is always when I get a chance to speak with Mark Torres from It Came from the Radio. I have fun with them, they like what they do and they are down to Earth. I may not know all their comic book references, but I can hold my own.

I had a chance to interview Mark Torres some time ago. How often have you gotten to speak with him, and how much does he usually have to say about his activities?

I speak with him a couple of times a year. He is always at some event. I think it’s great he is working on his show and able to be at several events that cover comics and films. I wish him and his show the best of success.

How often when you interviewed Torres did you and he touch on something particularly interesting?

I thought the topics he brought up were always interesting. I think his interviews had me discussing things about film that I normally wouldn’t. For example, how to make sure your pitch should be perfect and short when telling it to someone.

As horror podcasting and Youtube channels have been increasing in popularity over the years, do you consider it a good thing that more fan run programs are out there where fans can air their views about horror?

I go back and forth on this a lot. I am pro fan podcasting. However, they should be organized and professional. I know it takes a lot to put these in production and get out there, but it can be a thin line to becoming a video diary and talking head type thing. But that happens on all levels. I prefer organized shows. You never know who or what will become popular. As long as you have fun I’m for it.

Are there any new projects you’re planning to promote through Seven13? What sort of movies do you want to make that you haven’t tried before?

We’re developing the next segment of Generation Change and working on our new foundation called the James R. Halsey Foundation for the Arts. The foundation is in really early development. More to come out on it later in the fall. We were thinking of trying a western that I wrote called Kelly James: A Western. It’s something I really want to take on, but we’re not there yet in raising funds for it yet. However, the script is ready; it’s a period piece which I always wanted to do. I’m working on a script called Mac 5 and Salvaged. Both deal with artificial intelligence. I hope to turn them into a series since they deal with similar issues, just different story lines.

Is there anything about the James R. Halsey Foundation for the Arts you think the readers would be interested in?

We’re still working on the foundation development, but the idea is to raise money to create projects that involve students who normally wouldn’t get the chance to do so. We’d like to help develop the skills of those interested in filmmaking and help them obtain skills so they can get future work at other companies.

What movies or TV shows, if any, have been most inspirational to the scripts of Mac 5 and Salvaged? In what ways do these scripts address artificial intelligence?

Some of the inspirations are Westworld, both the old and new versions. Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas, Battlestar Galactica from the 1970s, The Big Lebowski, Starman, Blade Runner. All these gave some sort of inspiration. Obviously not all them deal with artificial intelligence, but more imagination and going down roads that have fantasy elements and delusions. Westworld and Blade Runner stands with the AI to me because it became popular again, so they are probably at the forefront when I think about those scripts. Mac 5 deals with creating AI and how it relies on humans to survive and Salvaged deals with the theory on how it begins on a smaller lab type level.

In what ways do you consider the scripts of Mac 5 and Salvaged relevant enough to be received by the public?

I think both scripts are theories that can fit into the relevancy of today’s scientific environment. Technology in my scripts is more of a vehicle for the characters in the films. In Salvaged it’s more about the obsession of creating AI and Mac five goes in the direction of why it could be the wrong way to go. Mac 5 discusses the philosophy of it and I think that is a current issue.

Do you have similar ideas in mind that you would consider socially relevant? Is social relevance of any particular interest to you when making movies, or do you not think about it as much?

I like writing about fantasy with relevant issues. I think it’s a big influence on what I do. I think it hits home more with people. I believe people are more likely to watch a film with a message that entertains and doesn’t bang you over the head with social awareness. With Seven13 Films, I have moved even further into social relevant ideas. I like creating all types of genres, at this time, I think something based in current reality with a mix of fantasy and dreaming is where I want to be at the moment. I do have other ideas on what I want to discuss when it comes to social relevancy. It’s just having the means and time to do them all.

What recent news about artificial intelligence stories did you read, if any, that inspired you to pen those two fiction pieces?

I haven’t been reading much lately on AI lately, aside from the Tesla Car development. It may not be completely AI-like yet, but I feel it’s gonna’ happen at some point. These cars are so cool that they basically drive the car for you. They measure speed and are aware of other cars on the road. It’s really autopilot for driving. These stories really had no effect on my writing, but the technology is mind-blowing.

Are there other developments being covered in the news that you are inspired to write about?

Politics, Politics, Politics. So much of it is all over the place, it’s hard to ignore or write something about politics and the way citizens feel these days. I wrote a short script called Anger Issues that has some of the angst of today’s world in it. The script is a therapy session that discusses the American dream and how some people can’t live up to it. It’s a dramedy.

In what ways would you want to be remembered as a script writer, for the impact you would have had on moviegoers?

Really, I’d like to be known for being a guy who can tell a memorable story. And If it’s not too much of a stretch, I’d like the movie goers to be entertained and hopefully remember the film for a little longer than it takes them to drive home.

Lee Kolinsky on Wix

-Dave Wolff

Interview with filmmaker ANDY HORRY by Dave Wolff

 

Interview with filmmaker ANDY HORRY

Producer of BRITISH BLACK METAL: THE EXTREME UNDERGROUND

In 2016 you released the documentary British Black Metal: The Extreme Underground (Tourmaline Films) which extensively covers England’s current black metal scene. How much exposure has it gotten since it was posted for viewing on social media?

It has had quite a lot of exposure actually. More than I expected to be honest. With it being a niche thing yet at the same time having a lot of passionate fans it got a lot of attention. I did build up a hype before making it through Facebook and with the crowdfunding campaign so that definitely helped. That was mainly with people in the UK but now it's surpassed that and people from other countries are watching too. It's got over 90,000 views now so it's definitely got some attention and the comments are mixed in opinion. There are a lot of people with strict definitions of black metal commenting and also people who don't usually listen to it who are opening their minds to the genre, but both interactions are appreciated. The last thing I'd do would be to censor the opinion surrounding it because I think it's important to hear views that aren't your own and to keep an open mind. When people disable the comments or disable ratings they are trying to shield them self from negativity but you are limiting yourself if you do that kind of thing and you won't continue to grow as a person so I welcome both kinds of comments.

I welcome rational discussions, in which people agree to disagree if need be, but as we know social media is also used as a platform to trash differing viewpoints. The attitude of “your opinion is wrong, you’re an idiot” etc. Often copped by people who claim to be open minded.

Good point. It's a difficult one really. On one hand I do think people should be respectful and not hurl insults at each other but at the same time just because someone throws insults around doesn't mean the other person is going to take it to heart. If we just keep on censoring everything then that also limits people from learning how to deal with abuse, which I think is a good skill to have. If you don't take everyone so seriously and remember that we're all human, that certainly takes the edge off a bit. So I do encourage civil debates but I also wouldn't advocate censoring discussions because it limits the room for growth. People seem to forget that you can also learn from uncivil discussions.

Is British Black Metal: The Extreme Underground your first effort at a documentary? What was it about today’s scene that inspired you to interview the new bands out there?

It’s my first documentary and the longest film I've made so far. The thing I like the most about the black metal scene in the UK is the diversity and depth it has. Back in 2014/2015 I was finding new bands every week and a lot of them sounded very unique with different ideas and themes going and I was really inspired by that. That excitement for the music really helped drive my creativity. I always do my best when in that kind of place. There has to be an intense enjoyment of the art I'm experiencing for me to put my all into it and the scene certainly succeeded in giving me that.

When I watched the film and listened to what the bands had to say, I was reminded of the British grindcore scene, in terms of the bands’ criticisms of society. What similarities, if any, do you see between the two?

Well I suppose the stance Winterfylleth have against corporate greed and corruption certainly fits with the grindcore scene's position, and then there's also the individualism aspect. Both genres are obviously extreme so that in itself has a sense of standing up for what you believe in by expressing yourself and saying fuck you to expectations. There are probably a few other similarities too, like both being inspired by punk but politics isn't generally all that common in black metal. The majority of the bands in the film had more of a distance from that in the music and focused more on things like nature, fantasy, spirituality and history. There might be some parts of the history side of things that could be seen as political but when it comes to the heritage stuff that kind of loops back to nature again and the heritage theme is quite prominent in the scene.

In terms of positions on society, it's a topic that's bound to come up in this sort of scene. Alternative music has always kept a certain amount of distance from society and it's an expression of people wanting something more out of life that's different to what they've been told. This is why I think spirituality is such an important part of the scene and the film. Although many people surrounding black metal are atheistic and anti-religious, I think there's still an intuition and understanding that there's more to life than just the physical realm and to me black metal is like a spiritual voyage of the unknown. It takes you somewhere else where not everybody wants to go but it's not just a journey in the dark for no reason. After all you can't see the stars without the darkness.

Why do you think so much time passed before the United Kingdom began forming its own exclusive scene?

I think it’s a bit of a mystery why we developed a scene at all really but the internet probably helped quite a bit. Hard to say why black metal connects with people in our culture. I guess the British reserve kind of thing is part of it, which is now making me think of Peep Show. I know it’s a bit bizarre to mention a comedy TV show in regards to black metal but there is that aspect of nihilism and existentialism in there that we really relate to in our culture. It's also brutally honest which we value, despite the fact we are generally pretty inauthentic in our actions as a culture. I think that's why we find it refreshing when we hear people being honest and accepting the fact they dread their existence.

I remember having that kind of feeling when first watching the show and it almost feels like the cultural conditioning in you is saying he can't do that, he's being honest about his feelings and though there's that resistance, the shock factor and authenticity overpowers the neurotic patterns arising. Having said that, Mark only really tells the viewer how he feels so it's believable and typical of a British person at the same time.

So going back to your question, I think it just happened at the time it needed to but definitely an interesting topic of why it became an interest over here.

In the 90s Cradle Of Filth and Hecate Enthroned were the UK’s premier black metal bands. Did their extensive bodies of work have any bearing on the newer bands that emerged in the 2010s?

They definitely influenced bands like Old Corpse Road and there's bands where the influence is more subtle like Ethereal and Eastern Front. I think a lot of bands are unconsciously influenced by them but wouldn't cite them when asked about inspiration, but it's there.

I noticed the UK scene’s emphasis on spirituality is contrasted the occult themes of the scenes in Norway and Sweden from the 90s. I think I remember a band or two stating they didn’t want to emulate those scenes or any others.

I can see why the film makes spirituality look that way but it isn't all on the positive side. "The Watcher" from Fen explains in the film that black metal has a sort of spiritual in the dark to it, suggesting that spirituality has other forms away from the stereotypes of being about love and peace. Harnessing the force of aggression can also be a part of the spiritual path, which is why martial arts is associated with it. Encompassing the masculine energy of existence is just as important as expressing the feminine, hence the well-known yin and yang.

The film does generally use a more positive look at spirituality though and connects it to the stillness and beauty of nature.

When it comes to comparisons of our scene with the goings on in Norway such as the church burnings et cetera we've definitely not taken things that far. It kind of comes back to the grindcore scene. The UK probably has more in common with that scene than the Norwegian black metal scene, despite being the same genre. As you say a lot of bands feel taking too much inspiration from the 90s Norwegian scene would be disingenuous and disrespectful to the Scandinavian culture. Bands like Winterfylleth have heavily made it about British culture and took a stand against the visual look that is expected of a black metal band by many people.

I remember reading about how Christianity was forced on the Scandinavian people, which had much to do with antichristian sentiment in Norway and Sweden. Does England’s different history account for the differences in their scene?

I learnt about that in some of the documentaries about black metal. Varg speaks about it in Until The Light Takes Us and I heard in some other films that Christians used to violently force Scandinavian people to convert to Christianity. Shoving snakes down people's throats and all kinds of brutal methods. So I can see why Varg was so pissed off at their culture. I prefer Abbath's attitude towards the church burnings though. "If you burn down a church, the government builds it back up again".

I don't think the church burnings really achieved anything apart from maybe publicizing black metal. Whatever the Christians did in the past though and however despicable it was, it's best left in the past and I don't think "revenge" ever lives up to expectations. If anything it turns people into the very thing they are against. That's how the right and wrong paradigm gets you. Reality is indiscriminate of what happens, there's just action and consequence before we assign any meaning to it. Once we see someone as evil we somehow tend to justify doing the same things to them that they did to others but in doing so what's the difference between us and them? Once we've met violence with violence we're likely going to be treated the same way by others as we treated them and the vicious cycle is more likely to continue.

Our culture is a bit different but religion has still been a big part of our past so it can definitely still be relevant to being Anti-Christian or Anti-Religious. As humans I don't think our particular habitat is always the biggest reason to take a stand against religion. We're all from the same planet and we're the same species so it often gets looked at in that way I think.

Nevertheless there are definitely bands who appreciate our culture and heritage who use that in their music. So yeah, our history is one way we differ from the Scandinavian scene but when you think about Burzum, though Varg appreciated his heritage and culture, his music was very fantastical and routed in escapism. He respected his heritage but couldn't fit into the new culture that the Christians had created. His resentment and distance from the new culture was probably two important parts of the sound he came out with. The nature around him obviously helped also and that couldn't be taken away from him.

Magazines overhyped the church burnings in Norway, though there weren’t as many incidents reported by the late 90s. Was this overhype in Until The Light Takes Us or did the film place it in a more realistic perspective?

I think Until The Light Takes Us is well rounded as a film and has a good balance. The church burnings were definitely prominent and give it the "edgy" shock factor. That's definitely a conscious decision to showcase it but it would be dishonest to leave it out also. I think it's what people remember the most after watching it but there are plenty of other things spoken about in the film. There's Fenriz's interest in art and electronic music and Frost's provocative stage shows featuring corpse paint, fire, violence and self-mutilation for example. It's a topic that you could easily make a whole documentary on but it's not all about that in Until The Light Takes Us.

Are there any documentaries on black metal or extreme metal you watched while surfing Youtube?

I found loads there and this was before even thinking of making my own but they inspired me to make one because the topic was so interesting. I really enjoyed watching them and that deep appreciation for the films was the driving force for me making my own. I made it with the viewer in mind because I know how great it was for me to watch these films and wanted to contribute to that. My favourites were "Black Metal's Unexplored Fringes - One Man Black Metal" by Noisey and "True Norwegian Black Metal" by Vice. They're both really well-crafted films and sculpt the atmosphere nicely with their filmmaking approaches. There are other films which are interesting but not quite at the same level when it comes to the viewing experience. I'd put Until The Light Takes Us next in order of favourites but these other two I preferred.

What documentaries, if any, did you get to watch by Bill Zebub Productions? Is his work known in the UK?

I've seen "The Music Of Satan" which was ok. It had a few interesting parts but the experience wasn't as immersive as I would have liked. I know it was a low budget film but feel there could have been some extra elements in there. I'm also not sure about his popularity in the UK but I haven’t spoken about him to anyone.

What bands and solo projects do you remember being featured in Black Metal's Unexplored Fringes, True Norwegian Black Metal and The Music Of Satan?

In Black Metal's Unexplored Fringes there's Leviathan, Xasthur and Striborg who are all one man bands. The film basically revolves around depression and isolation but also speaks about connection with nature.

True Norwegian black metal is all about Gorgoroth and Gaahl in particular. Although the filmmakers make some mistakes in the film like forgetting what Gaahl said and asking him something that he wouldn't like to answer, it's still very entertaining and educational.

I don't know The Music of Satan all that well because I haven't watched it as many times as the others. I think Venom, Immortal and King Diamond are a few that feature.

Who were the first bands you interviewed for the documentary and how did you arrange interviews with them?

The first bands I interviewed were Forneus, Ninkharsag and Mountains Crave all at the same gig, which was at the Snooty Fox in Wakefield. It's a great venue and the guy who runs it, called Malcolm had a tour bus he lets the bands use and kindly allowed me to use it for conducting the interviews. I arranged that with Malcolm and arranged the interviews through Facebook in regards to Forneus and Ninkharsag but Mountains Crave was quite spontaneous actually. I saw Danny, the vocalist at the gig and my rhythm guitarist, Liam from the band I was in at the time suggested I asked him to be interviewed. I actually played a set at that gig and interviewed three bands all in one night. Anyways I wanted to get Mountains Crave in the film at some point anyways so asked him if he was up for an interview for the documentary and although initially a bit taken by surprise, he agreed and we snuck off to the tour bus. As romantic as that sounds, I can assure you we kept things professional. After I got the footage from these interviews and some live footage of the bands, I put the crowdfunding video together, which people responded well to and added to the hype around the film.

How many UK black metal bands were interviewed for British Black Metal altogether? How many of them were you in contact with beforehand? As for the bands you weren’t in contact with, how did you have to arrange meeting them for interviews?

I conducted thirteen interviews, one being with author Dayal Patterson and promoter Steve Tefis, so twelve bands were interviewed. I was in contact with all the bands I interviewed, though the Mountains Crave interview was done earlier than planned, after spontaneously seeing Danny at the Snooty Fox gig.

The first interviews were at that gig in Wakefield, so they were quite nearby. The next band I interviewed was Hryre in Hebden Bridge so it was still not too far but a little bit further out. I tried to prioritize the ones that were further away after this. The most difficult to organize were the interviews with the bands down south. I ended up going down to London for the weekend to get a few in one, so it took a little while to get dates good for everyone. I interviewed Eastern Front, Fen and Steve and Dayal down there. It was organized mainly over Facebook and a few phone calls/texts in some cases. I had planned to fit Voices in there but that fell through. Luckily they were mentioned by some of the bands so I still got them in there with some added context.

I went down to a gig in Peterborough, which wasn't ideal for filming but I still managed to pull off an interview with Ethereal. The main reason was to get live footage of Ethereal, Eastern Front and The Infernal Sea in one go. It was a bonus to interview Ethereal who I would've had to travel again to interview if not.

How long has the Snooty Fox been hosting performances? Does it get sufficient coverage in the local press?

I'm not too sure about that actually. I've heard it's been around for quite some time and bands like to play there. Especially because they have cameras rigged on the ceiling and they live stream the bands. It's a bit of hidden gem that doesn't get the attention it deserves and was almost shut down at one point. Definitely needs more publicity than it gets.

Do you personally think it’s a good idea for clubs to stream their shows? CBGB streamed theirs for a number of years before its closing and this enabled people outside the US to see what performances there were like.

I think it's a good idea. When people share the stream it promotes the venue, and it can make bands want to play there. Watching a stream obviously isn't the same as actually being there so I don't think it'll stop people going just because you can watch it online.

I interviewed Adam of Forneus for Autoeroticasphyxium when it was in print; if memory serves we discussed his label Winter Forest Industries. Are you familiar with that label?

I've not heard of the label but Forneus are a good band. Slight line-up change I believe since I interviewed them. I think Scott, their drummer went back to Heathen Deity, an old band of his. Speaking of them, many viewers of the film really liked their acoustic pieces I used nearer the end of the documentary. They really did go well with the British landscapes and the NSBM part. Another great band to check out if you like the old school stuff.

Are you familiar with a label called UK Black Metal Promotion that released the UK Underground Black Metal Warfare compilation last May? If so have you been in contact with any of the bands that appeared on it?

I've not been listening to as much black metal lately so it'll be interesting to see if there are many new bands I don't know. I've been listening to quite a lot of prog rock and metal. Also a bit of grime actually, there's a great artist from Leeds called Dialect who's doing well and Graft also who's getting attention too. I've also been exploring through Mike Patton's music. That man is a genius and has dipped his toes in so many genres. I don't really care about genres nowadays, I just follow the vibe of the music. I also recently found a band from Bradford called Fling who's sound is a mix of indie rock, pop and 60s and 70s psychedelic rock. So they’re a pretty dynamic band who I think are gonna get big very soon.

I understand you were playing in band called Slaughter Throne. Did you play out, record and release anything with them?

We played gigs around the West Yorkshire area and also released an EP entitled Wrath of an ancient darkness. We actually started to build up a decent following but unfortunately it didn't last. I couldn't stay due to how busy I was with uni and the documentary.

Getting back to the documentary, who are the bands you interviewed with the most relevant things to say about present day England and the scene’s role in English society?

I think it depends on what you consider to be relevant, really. My goal was to get a wide variety of opinion and perspectives. I wanted the film to feel authentic and real; I only used footage of the bands speaking and didn't implement any voiceovers to lead the narrative.

I did have a narrative in mind but it ended up being a democratic process of meeting in the middle. My vision and personal perspective met with the opinions of the actual people in the scene. I'd considered a voiceover, having an intro and a guide throughout, with a conclusion at the end but I think that would have taken away from the feel. Perhaps the film could have been wrapped up a bit better at the end but other than that I'm happy with the overall connection you get with the people.

I don't really think the English black metal scene has much influence on our society though it doesn't really aim to either. It's more about being here with what already exists rather than trying to change anything. It's about authentic expression of our demons and an encompassing of the dark energy in nature. It's a part of us as much as we're a part of it. The melancholy side of nature is something we get satisfaction from. It's an accepting of the way existence is and not always having a need to be cheered up. Just because you feel sadness doesn't mean you don't feel some sense of enjoyment. We as humans want to feel all emotions, not just one particular emotion, but I think it’s generally forgotten in society as a whole.

Though it's about accepting reality it can also be about escaping from society's paradigms. Even when we do this we're still accepting truth and existence, no matter how paradoxical. Existence is full of paradox after all and great philosophers like Socrates knew this. "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing" springs to mind.

Do you feel that not having a narrative to lead the viewers makes room for them to directly take in the band’s viewpoints?

It does give a bit of space I think but there were my own ideas of what I thought I should and shouldn't feature, which is just the nature of editing really. There's always going to be your own bias in an edit but that's a lot of the time what makes it special. We all have our own way of looking at the world and I think being true to what you feel works is better than thinking of what people want.

Since you mentioned Socrates, how much of the paradox you described do you see in the scene and how much does philosophy come into play if it does at all?

I think it's an undertone you see very often, especially with the bands like Winterfylleth, Aklash and Old Corpse Road because nature is very much a part of the sound. The music gives you a sense of isolation and connectedness at the same time. It makes you forget about society and reminds you of what's real. A forest of stars also create this kind of atmosphere and DSBM is very much like that too. Philosophy came up quite a lot in the interviews, as did spirituality and the individualistic stance because it's a big part of the music. The thing that attracted me to black metal in the first place was its substance. I felt bored with thrash and death metal which started to feel hollow and devoid of any real meaning. A lot of it seemed to either be really cliché or just violent and dark themes for the sake of living up to the stereotypes of metal. I was gripped by the spiritual connection black metal gave me and the wolf pack symbolism. It's about saying no to being the sheep that blindly follows what everyone is doing and instead following your own destiny. This doesn't mean we isolate ourselves though. Respecting your right to do what you want with your life is better for everyone in your pack. If you don't listen to your heart then you'll likely take your frustration out on them. That's why following your calling and letting go of expectations is so important. That can be a problem when in a scene like this so I think it's important to keep reassessing things.

What material by Winterfylleth, Aklash and Old Corpse Road would you recommend to people reading this interview?

I'd suggest The Divination of Antiquity by Winterfylleth because it has a good balance of sounds in there which is probably why it's one of the more memorable albums to me. I don't think Aklash have released anything other than the self-titled album but they have a new one coming soon. Tis Witching Hour is a great album by Old Corpse Road. The atmosphere is brilliantly gothic and English, whilst having a harsh black metal assault.

How much of a wide range of perspectives do you believe is offered on the documentary?

I think it has a pretty diverse range of perspectives on how to create music and express yourself creatively. That was one of the main things I wanted to showcase. Just how much can be done with black metal and show that it's healthy for it to be taken apart and put back together so to speak. Questioning what black metal is and how far it can be pushed is interesting to me and whether or not everyone agrees whether something is still black metal I don't see as important anyways. As I said before, genres aren't concerns of mine. They are just labels to quickly sum up something that can't be explained or put into words. The place the music takes you is the important part, not what sticker it has on it. Moving with change is another important spiritual message that will help you stay fulfilled in life and I look at music the same way. If a genre has too many rules, it gets boring and loses the life it had when it was first born. Living things never stay the same, they are always changing so if genres don't change they are pretty much dead.

In what other ways does your approach to making documentaries differ from most others?

I don't think my process was too revolutionary but I would say that the editing is the strongest element of the film. It's my strongest area because I get the most enjoyment out of it. I love sculpting footage into something greater than how it stands on its own and combining it with other footage that supports it or gives it contrast. The editing process is more about surrendering to creativity instead of controlling it.

You need to have knowledge of how good edits work but once that stuff is second nature to you, the edit somehow edits itself. You have to get out of your own way and although attention to detail is important, you have to get the idea of perfection out of your mind and strive for excellence. Perfection is an illusion; a concept our minds come up with to try and get us to excellence but it can backfire if you forget it's just a tool.

Another thing I think made the film so engaging was the music choices. I had music almost all the way through the film but I used it subtly, just sitting underneath the voices. This added to the atmosphere but didn't distract the viewer from what the subjects were saying. It helped add emotion to the topics that were being spoken about.

I thought about every song I used and why it should be where it is in the film. When they speak about the topic of nature for example, the bands that fit around nature are used more and when speaking about NSBM there's an eerie and melancholic acoustic track that really heightens the emotional impact. It serves as a nice ending piece for the film after the viewer has experienced all the high energy. Taking it down to a sombre atmosphere gives it a satisfying contrast.

What is your personal definition of black metal from the bands you interviewed for the doc? Where do you think the genre will be headed the rest of the 2010s?

To me black metal is about connecting to what is real. It's about surrendering to darkness and encompassing masculinity. It's also about being there with melancholy and feeling the feminine side. I think it's often forgotten that both men and women have a mixture of femininity and masculinity within them and the balance is important. The stereotypes of both have nothing to do with the real essence of those expressions of the universe. I don't know where the genre is heading but there's something in not knowing that I appreciate. We don't really want to know because it takes the life out of it. Enjoy what's here in the moment and move forward into growth, while staying firmly in what's real: the present moment.

In the 90s it was a debate as to whether black metal was a trend or a cult. Which argument are you most inclined towards, and how has the meaning of those terms changed over the years?

Well as its still going I don't think it’s just a trend. It was more of a cult for many people but only in the early days. As far as I'm aware the meanings have stayed the same and black metal has more substance than trends tend to have.

What genres would you consider basing a documentary on next? Any ideas you’re mulling over at this point?

I've been considering doing one on Grime because the local scene is pretty good but I'm also wanting to do more fictional films. I don't know yet if I'll be making more documentaries but I'm keeping an open mind. There are many documentaries I would enjoy making though. It's really fun when you feel passionate about the area you are capturing. It'd be cool to make something with Fling at some point because I feel the excitement that drives me when listening to them so I think there could be something there potentially.

Who are Grime and Fling? How long have you known about that band, and what sort of feature would you do with them?

Grime kind of developed out of electronic music, garage and hip hop. It's pretty popular right now but not exactly something that many metal heads are into. A well-known artist in the genre is called Skepta and one of his most popular songs is called Shutdown, which you might have heard of. Fling are hard to fit into a genre but they are basically a mix of indie, psychedelic rock and pop. I only found out about them earlier this month and if I made a documentary about them I'd be open about the style it had. From what I've seen they seem fun, loving natured and humorous so they would be the main three things I'd focus on probably. I've heard that they all live together so perhaps a day in the life styled film with some other elements mixed in would be cool. Some live footage and what not would be good but maybe something else completely unrelated to the band that gave it a unique quality. A film following them on a road trip would also be great if there was the chance.

Metal and hip hop were crossed over extensively in the 90s. Some bands experimented before that but Biohazard was among the first to base their sound on the crossover.

Nu metal was actually what got me into heavier music in the first place. Linkin Park was the first band to take me down that route and then I ended up listening to metalcore, thrash, death and finally came across black metal which became my favourite. I'm also very into progressive rock and metal currently.

Talk about some of the ideas you have in mind for fictional films you’d consider working on.

I really want to make existential and spiritual centered films that are comedic yet immersive and intense but I'm also open to experimenting with any genre. I'd love to see if I could add something different to a genre and give it another dimension or mix two together that complement each other. I'm a big fan of Christopher Nolan and Charlie Brooker. The psychological thriller genre is one I really enjoy but I don't think my films would always fit under that umbrella. They would be close in terms of the thought provoking nature and shock factor they have but psychology is only one area that can used to give that sort of experience.

In what ways would Christopher Nolan and Charlie Brooker be an influence on your filmmaking?

They both have very deep and thought provoking work with an intense shock factor. Black Mirror by Charlie Brooker enters some dark and fucked up areas. It never fails to surprise you with its shocking twists. Christopher Nolan has great twists and his stories have complex dimensions which I love. His sci-fi movie Interstellar even went so deep it ended up in spiritual territory and challenges our assumptions of reality. While on the topic of inspiration, another director I'm inspired by is Shane Meadows. I love the balance of seriousness and comedy he has in This Is England in particular. His music choices work brilliantly. His work is immersive and believable because he balances improvisation and scripted parts so well you get lost in it. It feels like you're watching a documentary with real people.

How would you describe Meadows’ This Is England to people who have never seen it? What else would you\ recommend to the readers?

If I was to put it into three words I'd say Authentic, Hilarious and Heartbreaking and I'm referring to both the film and the TV series here. It's definitely not a series that falls short of the movie. The series compliments the film really well and explores the characters you don't learn much about in the film. I would recommend Dead man's shoes to anyone who likes This is England which was also directed by Shane.

How would you want to be remembered as a filmmaker in the future? If there is anything about your work you would want to have the biggest impact on people; what would it be?

I don't really think there's any particular way I want to be remembered. I'm fine with however people see me but I do care about the impact I have on people. I want my films to help people accept themselves, whilst giving them a satisfying experience. I want to help them grow and become the best they can be. This isn't to say it will be something that is possible to do in every film I make but other than this I just want to share both my joy and sadness with them through film. I want them to feel authentic emotion and connection to the non-physical.

Andy Horry's official website

Andy Horry at Youtube
Tourmaline Films at Youtube

-Dave Wolff