Interview with author Sahan Jayasuriya by Dave Wolff

Interview with Sahan Jayasuriya,  author of "Don't Say Please: The Oral History of Die Kreuzen"

What motivated you to write a book about the origins of Die Kreuzen?

When I first heard the band nearly 20 years ago, I was puzzled as to why I hadn’t heard them sooner. I was a huge fan of a lot of their contemporaries (Minor Threat, Bad Brains, Void, Husker Du etc) and to me, their music was just as good as any. Once I started to hear of their influence on other artists and general cult status, I think the seeds for the book were planted.

Are you an avid fan of the band?

Absolutely. It would be difficult to spend 10 years listening to and learning about a band if I didn’t love the music. This book has only made me appreciate the music more.

How much research was conducted while preparing it?

It’s hard to quantify this, but nearly 10 years of interviews with the band members and those who worked with them, plus other musicians who are fans of theirs. All that plus a healthy amount of digging up old articles and interviews from the time and old video footage. How much research? A ton. Is that an appropriate answer?

How long has punk rock and hardcore been a part of your life, and what’s your personal connection to it? What do you like most about attending punk shows?

I got into punk and hardcore through gateway bands who were influenced by the genre or came from it. Circa 1994, I heard things like Nirvana, Green Day, Rage Against the Machine and Beastie Boys. That eventually lead me to hear a lot of the Epitaph records bands as a pre teen, which lead me to bands like AFI, Snapcase, Refused, Converge, American Nightmare and Botch. Not long after that, I heard Minor Threat, which unlocked it all. I dove headfirst into the Dischord catalog.

So, long story short, it’s been a part of my life for the better part of 25 years and it’s shaped a lot of things about how I look at music making, creativity and the politics of the music biz. Even though I have pretty broad music taste, I still find myself listening to punk/hardcore stuff regularly. Things like Born Against, Drive Like Jehu, Fugazi, The Wipers, The Damned, His Hero is Gone and Wire are always in heavy rotation for me.

My favorite part of punk shows is the efficiency and intensity of it, bands who go up there and just completely tear it up for this brief flash and then promptly get off the stage. I’m talking about the approach to playing music specifically, not any kind of bullshit macho posturing or crowd violence or whatever; I’ve never cared for any of that, it’s not for me. Tons of people are, but I’ve always been a music first kinda person- memorable riffs and arrangements and hooks played by people with tons of passion and intention. Watch that Die Kreuzen public access performance from 1983, that’s what I’m talking about-just complete precision and intensity. Even when their music became a bit more expansive and less straightforward hardcore, they still performed with that same level of passion. It’s way more than just this aimless male aggression; there’s a lot more substance there.

But yeah, the brevity of it is just so great. I’ve always felt like there’s no need to play more than 20-25 minutes, especially for punk and hardcore. I grew up watching local bands play for like 7-10 minutes. Some of those sets were just mind blowing for me, just being completely 100% focused and engaged with the band for this really brief but intense window of time. There’s nothing like it.

How many times did you catch Die Kreuzen live before and while you were working on "Don't Say Please: The Oral History of Die Kreuzen"?

I have never seen the original line up of Die Kreuzen perform live. I saw them a few times with Jay Tiller on guitar around 2012/2013, but I am just a little bit too young to have caught any live gigs between 1981-1992.

Did the band members give you all the information you needed each time you interviewed them? Did you take note of anything especially intriguing for the book?

All interviews for this book were recorded and then transcribed verbatim. Sometimes I’d have to ask follow up questions or in some cases, ask the same questions again a few years later, only to be told new information that I hadn’t gotten the first time around. It’s an interesting thing because you’re talking to people who created these things that are so revered, but to them, it’s just something they did in a studio for two or three days.

As fans, we have to remember that our perspective and relationship with someone’s work is not at all the same as theirs. Something that could be considered life changing music to a person can simply be met with a “Yeah we did that in two days” answer from the artist. For me, I tried to be as thorough as possible with this book and I hope people appreciate the things that I was able to write about with a bit more detail and depth.

What was it about Minor Threat that really struck a chord with you? How much did Ian MacKaye's lyrics influence the way they impacted you?

When you first hear punk rock, or whatever it is you perceive to be punk rock, you're usually drawn to the speed and intensity of the music, which is only relative to the music that you already know. When I first heard the Sex Pistols, I had heard about them prior to hearing the music. When I finally heard the music, I was almost disappointed by how tame it sounded. Never Mind the Bollocks is a good record and it's extremely important, but in a lot of ways, it's kind of just this mid tempo rock record with snotty vocals. Like Fun House feels more unhinged than Bollocks does. When I started to hear a lot of those Epitaph Records bands, I thought the music was cool and fast and whatever else, but for the most part it wasn't all that gnarly (besides a handful of bands like F-Minus, who I absolutely love). When I heard the Minor Threat discography and The First Four Years and the Bad Brains ROIR tape, I felt like I had finally found something I had been trying to find for years. Those three records were like the platonic ideal of what I wanted hardcore punk to sound like.

I said before that I'm a music first, lyrics second kinda listener in that 'm way more drawn to songwriting, cool riffs and rhythmic stuff, great production, all that. Even though I listen with that kind of an approach, Minor Threat's lyrics definitely stood out to me in that they didn't just feel like another band writing songs about Reagan (which to clarify, I completely support, there were just so many bands who did that). A lot of those Minor Threat songs are about friendships gone bad and other sorts of interpersonal conflicts. More than anything though, the rawness of the music really stood out to me, and also the fact the songs were deceptively tuneful. Those choruses are hook central, you can sing along to them after hearing them a few times.

In relation to Die Kreuzen, I had a very similar reaction when I heard them for the first time. There was an intensity to the music and vocal approach that I hadn't heard before, and the music was played with so much precision and focus. It's the last record they did that included a printed lyric sheet, and similarly, the lyrical approach is far more personal than political. To this day, there's not another hardcore record that sounds like the first Die Kreuzen record; their approach and technique were unlike anyone else at that time. That first album is hardcore punk, but it's hardcore punk done in their own unique way. Throughout their career, no matter what they did, it always stood apart from whoever their contemporaries were at the time; it had that secret sauce.

How much have punk and hardcore influenced your perspective on making music and music industry politics? Does this help you create on your own terms?

Labels like Touch & Go and Dischord taught me a lot about how the music industry should be, even in comparison to other massively influential indie labels that began around the same time. Learning more about Touch & Go through this book only increased my respect for the label and Corey Rusk as a business owner. To me it seems like a no brainer, to run a label ethically and treat artists fairly, but we all know how uncommon it is to find labels who operate this way. Comparing other labels to Touch & Go and Dischord, it's always made me feel like "Oh, you could treat artists better but you choose not to".

As someone who values the boundless creativity that can come with making music and art in general, its easy to see how the major label system often puts a damper on that in the interest of making money. For me, whenever I do anything creative, I always make sure that I'm happy with the outcome first. I make things because I enjoy it, so to create something with someone else's opinion or approval in mind is just not how I go about it. I think years of listening to and studying punk and hardcore have brought me to that mindset.

Would you say the band were down to earth despite being revered. and this made your interviews with them run more smoothly?

I think the members of Die Kreuzen are extremely humble and kind. In the decade that I've spent getting to know them and piecing together their story, there was never any kind of arrogance that came through; there was always just an immense amount of gratitude for all and any accolades they've received over the years. All four members have always expressed so much gratitude for anyone who has taken the time to pay attention to what they did. The interviews went smoothly for the most part. If there were any challenges, it was trying to get them to recall specific things that happened decades ago.

What do you think about the role of politics in punk these days, especially with media spin, fake news issues and cancel culture going on?

I can't really speak on the entire genre as a whole, as I'm involved with so many other things outside of the realm of punk. There are plenty of punk bands who are apolitical, at least lyrically, but from the handful of things I experience firsthand, I still see tons of bands (punk and otherwise) who take advantage of their platform to speak on issues that are of significance to them. I don't think punk rock has to be explicitly political to have value (Die Kreuzen consciously never were, at least lyrically), but some of the best things to come from the genre have had some sort of political component to them, be it through lyrics, activism, fundraising or otherwise.

Share with the readers how you hooked up with Feral House to publish the book.

I started promoting this book long before it was finished in an attempt to find more people to interview, and a handful of publishers would check in with me from time to time to see how things were progressing. Christina at Feral House has been following my writing since I started, and we finally decided to work together in 2023. Prior to 2023, I was pursuing this project 100% independently, working on it in my free time while also working various full-time jobs. I'm extremely grateful for Feral House; had they not stepped in, there's a really good chance I may still be working on it.

When the band looked back on past events, how frequently did they include details that might have slipped their minds before?

I sometimes asked the same questions or asked the band to recall stories more than once over the years. In some cases, certain extra details were included on the second or third telling that weren't there the first time. I don’t think those details slipped their minds as much as it’s just like, rarely do we tell stories exactly the same every time.

The nice thing about writing a book about a band as opposed to a solo artist is that you have more than one perspective and also more than one source for recalling the past. Sometimes, one band member would bring up something, which would jog the memory of another, etc. I was able to interview Dan and Keith together a few times, and Erik and Keith together a few times, and those were the interviews that had more of those memory jogging occurrences.

Which research material you went through was the most useful for you regarding information and context?

There wasn’t one thing in particular, really. It was cool to look at zines over time to see how the subgenre names would change-like how the word “hardcore” didn’t appear until some time in 82. Even later into the 80s when writers weren’t sure how to classify Die Kreuzen, they’d make these bizarre comparisons like “R.E.M. meets Anthrax”. Ultimately, it was all useful. Any press I was able to get my hands on wass useful in helping me understand the time period overall.

Overall, how much did you learn about Die Kreuzen from all those years of interviews and research?

Prior to starting this project, I knew just a fraction of what I know now, and that's largely because there wasn’t much information out there to begin with. I think I have a pretty extensive understanding of what the band did in that time period, and probably know more than most people do at this point, but there’s always more to learn. Even now, I’ll ask the band questions about stuff and they’ll give me these great stories that I’ve never heard before. So am I an expert? I don’t know. Maybe a mild expert? I’m comfortable with that.

-Dave Wolff

Interview with Cullen Gallagher (Demoted, Steve Carface) by Dave Wolff

Interview with Cullen Gallagher by Dave Wolff

As a resident of Brooklyn, New York, how long have you been involved in the New York hardcore scene? What motivated you to become involved and how did you learn about it?

I was born in August, Georgia and grew up in Orono, Maine, where I played bass in a bunch of “attic” bands (since we couldn't play in the garage). I moved to NYC in 2003 and played in a couple rock bands, but mostly I was traveling in the repertory/indie/experimental film scene. I was making a lot of guitar-based instrumental and experimental music as Modern Silent Cinema, but these were home recordings and I was looking to play live, play loud, and I knew I wanted to sing, too. Problem was--I had no idea “how” to sing, or “what” I wanted to sing. And despite having played guitar since I was like four (mostly classical, but a little jazz), I also had this imposter feeling, like I wasn't a real guitarist. Then in 2013 a buddy turned me on to stuff like Descendents, Adolescents, Angry Samoans, and something just clicked. I loved the individuality of expression in these bands. They wrote, played, and sang exactly the way they wanted--and they didn't apologize for anything. I loved it. These bands gave me the confidence to stop trying to sound like other people. We formed a band called Night Squad and started playing shows right away.

When you first heard Descendents, Adolescents, and Angry Samoans, what about them appealed to you? In what ways did they inspire you to express your own ideas?

They were fast and loud and not afraid to embrace being weird. I guess I felt a bit like an outsider in my skin at the time, and when I heard them I could imagine myself with a guitar, belting that stuff out, and it just felt right. You could say that about a lot of music, but for whatever reason the stars aligned the moment I heard those bands. Descendents screaming about coffee and food. Angry Samoans turning a horror movie like “The Todd Killings” into a song (though it's more like a word game based around the title). The music was aggressive but also fun and nerdy, I could relate to that.

What was your experience playing in “attic” bands while living in Maine? Were any bands you formed serious in nature, or just for the hell of it?

This was the mid-90s in small town Maine. The local school probably barely had a few hundred students. My older brother managed to put together some groups but usually needed a bassist, so despite being four years younger I often got to join in. Hanging with older cooler kids playing rock n roll? Loved it! This was also before Myspace and internet communities were a thing, so we barely played beyond our town or knew any other bands with kids our age. In 1999 my brother moved to New York City to study classical guitar, and when I went to visit that’s when I realized there was more to playing music than just being in an attic in Maine. My last attic band moved to NYC in 2003 and gave it a go, but we didn’t really know how to get gigs so we only played a couple shows.

After moving to Manhattan, which rock bands did you work with? Were you considering it a local stint or something more serious? What were the number of clubs that hosted rock shows at the time, and how was the attendance when you performed?

Shoot the Piano Player was my first band in the city, indie rock, we moved from Maine together. We only lasted a year in the city before we went to other parts (I went back to Maine for a year, but returned to New York in 2005). At the time, I was trying to pursue some sort of career in cinema studies—programming/curating, reviewing, film history. For some reason, that seemed a more stable career than being a musician (boy, was I dumb!). So at that point I mostly recorded music in my apartment as Modern Silent Cinema, though I did play bass briefly in an indie rock band, Medium Cool, we did a small weekend tour, but that was about it. Early 2000s were great for rock clubs in NYC—more than I could possibly count, ranging from backrooms at bars to basement clubs to warehouses to actual big pro venues. One warehouse party in the meatpacking district was so crowded and sweaty I could barely keep my hands on the strings. Medium Cool opened up for Albert Hammond Jr. at Webster Hall which was definitely the biggest gig I’ve ever played, probably a couple hundred people there for us as the opening act? A lot more people were there for the headliner, haha. Fast forwarding to Covid, that’s when I really started to get more serious about getting my music out into the world. Demoted’s first two albums (“No Use” and “Not Myself Today”) were unused demos from Night Squad. Those lead to re-teaming with Squad bassist Phil Harrington and Anti-Difrano guitarist/singer Chris Hopkins, who agreed to drum for Demoted. When Chris moved to Texas after recording “Shit for Brains”, Demoted had to slow down (but we haven’t stopped! Working on a new E.P. remotely, and planning a short tour), and that’s when Steve Carface started, my solo hardcore project.

Were you able to visit any New York clubs before they closed, such as Continental and CBGB?

I made it to Continental but not CBGB, much to my regret. Had the chance, but I was more interested in movies at that point. I spent more time later on at more recent venues like Palisades, Silent Barn (second one), Death by Audio, Shea Stadium, Acheron—sadly, they’ve all closed. Saint Vitus is still around, but they are temporarily closed due to some permit issue stuff, hopefully it will be resolved soon.

Do you visit other clubs that are still open, or visit newer clubs?

There are good newer clubs. TV Eye is terrific, got to see The Crosses there a couple weeks ago (the original Die Kreuzen singer with a new band), Mirage opened for them and they're an insanely good hardcore band. Market Hotel was one of the classic early 2000s DIY venues, and it reopened a while ago as a legit spot, saw a great black metal bill there a few weeks ago (Ebony Pendant and Lamp of Murmuur). Hart Bar has a basement and is willing to host punk and noise shows, and Mama Tried in Sunset Park hosts free outdoor gigs all summer, lots of weirdo punk bands like Oof play there, it's great there are places like these still around. And there's always new places opening up. A few years back I was lucky enough to befriend some people doing basement and garage shows—incredible scenes that shined briefly. I'm sure there's more things like that happening, if you look deep enough.

What led you to become involved in the independent and experimental film scene in New York? When you began composing music, was this industry undergoing rapid growth?

As I mentioned, I was studying film history, and the years before streaming were incredible for the NYC film scene. Not as prolific as music clubs, but there were tons of great small venues still getting 16mm and occasionally 35mm prints of crazy ass movies. Writing about them for local magazines helped me make friends in that world, eventually I started writing for a site called Not Coming To A Theater Near You and we got invited to program a monthly series at 92Y Tribeca. It was a blast. The biggest relation to music was that these experiences showed me the benefits of being part of an active artistic community, which motivated me to get back into music.

What movies did you review before and after you began writing for Not Coming To A Theater Near You?

I don’t really know the numbers of our web hits, but for an early 2000s website reviewing mostly out-of-print and obscure movies I think we had an audience, and by design we didn’t accept any advertising so it was completely volunteer. Some of the writers have gone on to be successful, which is great. I wrote about silent cinema whenever I got the chance, and occasionally there was a crossover with music, like Pere Portabella’s “The Silence Before Bach” (2007), an experimental doc about Johann Sebastian Bach.

What do you think readers might find interesting about Portabella's “The Silence Before Bach”?

If you want a straight biopic, this is not the movie for you. I find that sort of biographical approach to music really boring and trite (and often it focuses on the wrong aspects of the artist’s life). “The Silence Before Bach” is more of a series of cinematic performance pieces—like a cellist playing Bach on a subway car. It’s about the music and space and ambience more than “Bach was born in yada yada yada.” If you want a different approach to music on film, it’s well-worth checking out.

During your tenure at Not Coming To A Theater Near You, what were the benefits of reviewing rare and out-of-print films? Did most of the films featured come from independent studios? Can you recall any that were particularly exploratory?

At the time, NYC had a thriving repertory scene, so you could see some amazing stuff that wasn’t easy to come by, and see it on a big screen. This was also before streaming, before Netflix, before full movies being uploaded to YouTube. We had access to Kim’s Video on St. Mark’s Place, so we could find tons of out of print VHS and DVDs and bootlegs, imported movies, stuff that was not easy to find. We did a series on Nicholas Ray—the director of “Rebel Without a Cause”—and at the time, many of his movies made for big studios were just completely unavailable, and we had to reply on crummy bootlegs. It’s wild how even a name like his, and movies made for big money, could still fall into obscurity. A good reminder that one should always dig! That certainly informed my approach when I got back into music.

Are you observing any changes in the indie film industry in terms of indie movies receiving more attention, and websites and podcasters offering their perspectives on indie and mainstream productions without the assistance of mass media?

I think there’s great potential for indie film, music, and indie arts journalism—but I think it’s going to be a struggle. Amazon, Spotify, the big names still control the market, they’re money machines and the money is in mega pop stars, not Demoted or Steve Carface, and not no-budget features without Hollywood stars. Stuff like the Oscars is as much about patting themselves on the back as it is reinforcing their dominance on audiences—they’re telling us that they’re important, that they’re the best, and they’re trying to groom audiences to want what they’re selling. Indie artists and writers have to support each other to get both of their work out there and reach a wider audience, we’re all in it together, and we’ll rise or fall based on how well we stick together as a real community. A great lesson one can learn from the history of punk is how they built networks of shows, touring, distro, fanzines, before the internet age. With the tools we have today, we should (and hopefully will) continue that legacy.

As a result of mutual support, the punk and hardcore scenes in New York are larger than ever despite the loss of CBGB, Continental, and other clubs from the classic era. You see the same at metal festivals organized by independent labels that draw crowds of arena proportions, built from the grass roots.

Bands and fans keep the community going, when one place closes another opens up, always new opportunities. Real estate prices are more insane than ever here in NYC, and that’s making it harder and harder for clubs to stay open and new ones to start, but people are trying to make it happen, one way or another. Union Pool, Kingsland, Alphaville, Windjammer, Wonderville, there’s still lots of great places to play here in New York.

Tompkins Square Park, where the activists who publish The Shadow and protest the real estate increases, are still hosting free shows and giving artists as well as bands a platform to promote their work. What do you find most beneficial about this?

Tompkins is such an iconic and symbolic part of NYC (going back to Tent City), I think it is great that the shows can be a way to keep it active as a political space and as a link between the past and future. Every inch of the city is being bought up, parks are some of the last public spaces out there, they are vital to the community.

What movies did you compose music for with Modern Silent Cinema? What guitar and recording equipment did you use during these sessions?

Modern Silent Cinema started in 2004 when I moved back to Maine as just some guitar chords recorded into a laptop so I could practice bass. The project grew—I scored a couple classic silents, like “Gertie on Tour” and “Anemic Cinema”—but mostly I just explored songwriting. Twenty years later, it’s still going, and I’m releasing (at least) six albums this year—the first in Jan. was solo piano, the second in March was an acoustic guitar and synth soundtrack to “The Cinema Detective”, an experimental dystopian essay film by my friend Matt Barry. MSC is also what lead me to writing hardcore punk. The instrumental songs kept getting closer and closer to resembling punk rock in their tempos and arrangements, and got to the point where I had to stop and finally start adding vocals. I’m now working on how to play MSC live as a solo guitar project, and that is going to be very influenced by my hardcore punk. In between writing these responses I’m trying to blend classical guitar-ish stuff with more noisy punk riffs. Not sure how it’s gonna work, but I’m trying.

In what areas of the print industry are Modern Silent Cinema’s albums getting recognition? What newer movies, if any, have you scored of late?

Still working on getting more coverage for MSC, the challenge with that project is it’s never sat firmly in “avant garde,” “noise,” “classical,” “rock, or any other genre. I can’t even call it 100% instrumental because I do a few songs with vocals on the album “Ghost”. Even though it isn’t easy to categorize, it’s the longest running music project in my life, and probably the one closest to my heart. 2024 marks twenty years of MSC, so to celebrate I’m releasing a ton of material, six CDs planned (and maybe a 7” if I can swing it). “Passages X-XXI” is my second collection of solo piano, sort of influenced by Ligeti and Satie. “The Cinema Detective” is mostly solo acoustic guitar with a few solo synth pieces, it’s a soundtrack to a movie by Baltimore artist Matt Barry, a dystopian sci-fi essay film about two film scholars doing detective work into some pirate broadcasts. The newest album is “The Cabinet of Modern Silent Cinema”, an archival collection of pieces that went astray or got lost over the years.

Was “Passages X-XXI” composed as a film soundtrack? What are Ligeti and Satie and how did they influence the recording of that album?

Cullen: That album wasn’t intended as a soundtrack, it was recorded while visiting my mother in Maine. Every time I passed by the piano, I tried to sit down and write something that would come naturally. I wrote and recorded the album in the exact order that it appears on the album, one of the most pleasurable and natural albums that I’ve ever made. Erik Satie and György Ligeti are two of my favorite classical composers, big influences on me. Ligeti has a series called Musica Ricercata, the first piece has one note (but at different octaves), the next piece two notes, and so on. I think it’s incredible the mood and melodies and rhythms he creates with so few notes! Satie is an impressionist known for his Gymnopédies, very atmospheric and delicate, I tried to keep that sensibility in mind.

For what recordings are Erik Satie and György Ligeti best known? Would you recommend these recordings to the readers of this interview?

Satie is best known for his Gymnopédies and Gnossiennes for piano, I grew up on the Aldo Ciccolini recordings and he’s great. They’re very soothing and calm, and even if you don’t know them by name I’m sure you’ve heard them in movies, very popular and iconic. I discovered Ligeti through the soundtracks of Stanley Kubrick, parts of his Musica ricercata series was included in Eyes Wide Shut (the single and two-note haunting themes). Pierre-Laurent Aimard is the most acclaimed Ligeti performer (and the composer’s favorite), I got to see Aimard play Ligeti’s songs at Carnegie Hall last year and he was incredible.

In order to fit the Matt Barry movie, how did you arrange the material on “The Cinema Detective”? Why did you consider acoustic guitar and synthesizer an appropriate soundtrack?

I had worked with Matt on Forbidden Frames in 2022, and I had one acoustic guitar piece left over, and I couldn’t figure out what to do with it. My guitar was tuned in a weird way, and I whenever I went to tune it naturally I just kept remembering the melody and I’d keep it that way. When I saw the footage for The Cinema Detective, I realized it was the right place to start. Thematically, The Cinema Detective is about solitary people—a lone scholar contemplating the footage of a lone driver, taking to an AI simulation of a scholar. A single guitar seemed fitting. And because of the tech aspect of the story, a synthesizer also seemed appropriate.

What songs did you collect for "The Cabinet of Modern Silent Cinema", and how were they arranged to fit together?

"The Cabinet of Modern Silent Cinema" is the first of three archival collections coming out this year, the other two are Anemic Music and Aphonia. They started when I decided to organize my digital files and realized I had a lot more finished songs (or nearly) just sitting around. Most of Cabinet was actually an album called Bored Out Of My Fucking Mind that I had sequenced and mixed like ten or twelve years ago, but just completely forgot about it somehow. They’re cassette and micro-cassette based, so I threw on a few others songs from that era, including three guitar duets with my brother Boru which I also totally forgot we recorded. All of the material on the three albums is 2008–2012ish, so it was mainly just an issue of organizing them according to what sounded best to my ears, or that were related (like the stuff with my brother).

You mentioned two songs you wrote for Steve Carface, “Side” and “Other People”, which deal with making personal changes and prioritizing self-care over creating on the side. To what extent do these songs reflect your desire to create?

By Fall 2022, I was pretty frustrated with where I was in life. The Covid years did hell on the New York music scene. A lot of friends dispersed to other parts, or just stopped playing music. The community felt fractured. As I mentioned, Chris, the drummer for Demoted, was living in Texas. And all I knew was that I wanted to play music, and I wasn’t doing that. Steve Carface grew out of renting rehearsal space on Monday nights, sitting in a dented metal folding chair and banging a guitar and yelling until something coalesced. “Side” literally puts these feelings into words, “I’m not satisfied by living on the side.” For years that’s what I had been told was the smart thing to do—play music “on the side.” I absolutely hate those words and never want to hear them again. “Other People” channels a whole bunch of frustrations, haha. “I’m sick of doing shit for other people that doesn’t mean shit to me, why am I always putting myself last and pissing away my precious life?” There’s no subtext there—I just want to create something personal and that I believe in. I know for now I need a day job (and probably always will) to pay for rent and food, but do I have to be satisfied with that? Hell no. I’m trying to reclaim my mind and energy and time, as much as I can.

How long was Night Squad active, and did you release any material with them?

Night Squad existed for around four years, fall 2013 through spring 2017. We put out two tapes (“Fat Again” and “Shaken”), and posted a live album on Bandcamp, but we never really knew how to distribute the albums. Hell, I barely know that now, but that's something I'm trying to learn! Did a lot of emailing and packing up CDs/tapes and standing in line at USPS this year, but it's been fun seeing Demoted and Steve Carface get out into the world. I'm also working on putting together a collection of my demos during that period, and another compilation of live recordings.

Describe your experiences recording the earliest material for your bands. Which did you prefer, working in professional studios or recording on your own?

I’ve done almost exclusively home recording. Back in the 90s it was on Yamaha and Tascam cassette 4-track and 8-track recorders. Since the 2000s I’ve been using GarageBand, Logic, and I dabbled a bit with Ableton. The most “pro” experience was Night Squad recording in the drummer’s office (he worked in commercial jingles). For Demoted, “No Use” was recorded in my apartment on GarageBand, and “Not Myself Today” was recorded in my rehearsal space, I’d set up two mics (the most inputs my interface could handle), jump on the drum kit, then try to stay on tempo best I could. I’d then swing the mics around in front of my Fender Pro Jr. and record the guitars, which were usually way too far in the red. But I was impulsive, these weren’t intended to be released, it just turned out that years later when I finally learned to mix better (somewhat, haha) that they were able to be released. “Shit for Brains” was also recorded in a rehearsal space, but our drummer Chris Hopkins had much better gear so he could mic up drums properly, and he, bassist Phil Harrington, and I could all play together. The whole album was recorded live together. Steve Carface was a return to the “Not Myself Today” style of one-man-band recording, but I used a Zoom Q2n video camera to capture the drums, then I threw that into Logic and started adding guitars/basses/vox.

How have your bands evolved since their early releases? Considering all the instruments you play and the materials you have recorded with, how have they helped you progress in a natural way?

The biggest change since 1994, when I played in my first band, to now, is that back then I was playing bass and not super active in the songwriting process at first, whereas now I’m mainly playing guitar/singing and am the primary songwriter in Demoted, Steve Carface, Modern Silent Cinema, and the country singer-songwriter stuff under my name. I’m involved in other projects were I’m not the primary songwriter, sometimes I’m just learning a pre-written part, other times I’m contributing my own parts to a song someone else wrote. I love both ways of making music, it’s fun collaborating with other people, but I also enjoy projects where I’m working solo. Playing multiple instruments is helpful in that it provides different viewpoints on how instruments can contribute to and shape a song, sort of like walking a mile in another person’s shoes, gives you a different perspective on elements of composition and performance.

Which independent labels have helped promote your bands since you began releasing material, and to what extent have they helped you expand your fan base?

The only label I’ve worked with is Fuzzy Warbles, and they’ve been great! Ben Mancell is the brains of the operation, super supportive, heck he gave me the confidence to actually get Demoted off the ground, I just figured I had some demos that sounded ok, but his enthusiasm helped me get back on my feet and writing new material and playing shows. HIs tape label has a cool lineup of oddball rock, punk, synth, and other weirdo bands, I feel right at home there! They do a lot of shows together, so it’s a great community spirit. The Fuzzy Warbles experience inspired me to start my own label, Bad Channels Records, and right now I’m just dealing with my own recordings but hoping to start helping other bands once I have a bit more experience under my belt.

How long were you operating Bad Channels Records? Was it originally established to promote your bands? How did your experience with Fuzzy Warbles inspire you to form the label?

Bad Channels started October 2023, so it’s still very new. With so much music floating around on the internet, I feel like there’s a renewed importance for labels to act as hubs for artists and listeners. I see Bad Channels less as a “brand” than a gathering place. I’d like to start releasing other music, but I still have so much to learn and I’m using my own stuff to workshop and gain experience. I love Ben’s work with Fuzzy Warbles, they’re the sort of label I order everything that comes out, I don’t even listen ahead of time, I know it’s gonna be great, and at the same time I don’t know exactly what it’s going to sound like, and I like that element of chance, it’s cool that the label is willing to take chances on different sounding groups.

Has your label expanded, or do you plan to expand it to support other bands? How much promoting do you do to let people know the label exists?

I definitely plan on expanding, and still figuring out how to let people know! Greenpoint, where I live in Brooklyn, has a lot of great record stores, and Record Grouch has been super supportive and has carried a couple of the releases so far. I’m still packing up promos and sending CDs and tapes to zines and radio stations, and emailing files to internet shows, which is a fun way to connect with people, and it seems to be working. Got recent play on WFMU (New Jersey), Half 'n Hour Boots (Radio Bandito) out of Italy, Clean Nice Quiet (8K.NZ/KPISS.FM), Radio Eustachio (Italy), Punk AF Radio with Paul Hammond (England), WRUW FM91.1 (Cleveland, OH), and WMSE 91.7FM (Milwaukee). I was psyched when Maximum Rocknroll wrote about Demoted! There are so many streaming links online I think putting copies in people’s hands is the way to go, or at least offering—many times when I email asking for an address they just say to send files, but they seem to appreciate the gesture. Other people def want the physical copy, which I totally get, because that’s mostly how I listen to music.

Maximum Rocknroll is still active? I thought they folded some time back but I could have been wrong. Anyway, how often do you read that magazine?

Every Monday they post a batch of new reviews on their site, so I check it weekly, they still cover bands from all over the world so it’s a good way to find out what’s out there.

Do you likewise do mail order to support Bad Channels Records? What local bands and bands from elsewhere are you currently thinking of signing?

Yeah I’m doing some mail order tapes/CDs, would love to do lathe or real vinyl at some point in the future. I’ve talked with one band about releasing their complete discography, and I have a couple projects in mind that are currently active, but before I announce anything I wanna make sure I can handle the albums responsibly, get them produced in the right media format, get them in some stores and get press coverage.

Do you believe your work has had potential to influence popular music in any significant way? Would you like to expand the range of instruments you record with?

If I’m ever able to have any influence, I’d like to think that it’s from the audience side of things, supporting local shows, independent bands, and independent record stores. I love making music and will continue to do it, but it’s also deeply gratifying to be able to give back to the music community and other artists and show my appreciation. Regarding other instruments, I really want to buy a pedal steel—I play lap steel in Hard Job and love it, but the pedal steel is a totally different instrument and I’d love to give it a shot, I’m such a sucker for classic country music.

Would you be interested in joining a new band or project in the near future? If so, how do you anticipate growing as a musician? In what ways do you likewise wish to grow as a lyricist?

As far as lyrics go, I’d like to write happy songs, often I grab the guitar and write when I’m feeling low, and it’s a great outlet, but I’d like to find that same sort of connection when I’m in a more positive state of mind. And I’m certainly open for collaborations—been playing bass with an industrial noise metal project called 8 Hour Animal, we did a short West Coast tour last summer which was great. Playing that style was totally new to me, and it was a fun challenge to push myself as a musician to play that style and understand the compositions. Playing with other musicians and connecting with them is a great and rewarding pleasure, hope to be able to do it for the rest of my life.

-Dave Wolff

Modern Silent Cinema official site

Steve Carface official site

Demoted official site

Not Coming To A Theater Near You official site

Interview with Kelvin Scott Frazier by Dave Wolff

Interview with Kelvin Scott Frazier by Dave Wolff

From what I heard, you were inspired to study vampirology, vampire folklore and the Vampyre Subculture after reading “Piercing the Darkness: Undercover with Vampires in America Today” by Katherine Ramsland. You were particularly fascinated by the interviews.

At the age of ten, I read “Bram Stoker’s Dracula” and read it again in 2012. I read the first three books of Anne Rice’s (RIP) “Vampire Chronicles”, “Interview With The Vampire”, “The Vampire Lestat” & “Queen of the Damned” as an adolescent along with the Novel version of “The Lost Boys” (I saw the Movie too). Most of my guilty pleasure films are about Vampires. Ironically, Rosemary Sahjaza saw my book review of “Piercing the Darkness” and decided to get me published. I am excited and nervous at the same time.

As for the Vampyre Subculture, I made some friends over the years (House Kheperu) and they gave me a home along with people in the Left Hand Path.

What kind of occult/LHP organization is House Kheperu and how deeply involved are you with them? Does this group have origins in New York, or are they more widespread?

House Kheperu is about “Finding your own truth”. I went to their seminars in the past for many years to explore who and what I am. I am NOT a member of House Kheperu. I consider myself a Ronin in the Occult Community.

I am a Solitary, Lone Wolf, independent individual who respects other people’s freedom and organizations who does my own research and reading.

House Kheperu comes from Cleveland, Ohio. I’ve NEVER been to New York, but Vampyre Subculture is Worldwide if you know where to look.

What would be the definitions of terms such as Ronin and Lone Wolf, if they can be defined?

Originally, a Ronin is a Samurai who has no master and chooses to walk alone. In the Vampyre Subculture, a Vampyre who doesn’t belong in any household, or any group in the Vampyre Community.

Can you tell me the advantages and disadvantages of being a Ronin and/or a Lone Wolf?

The advantages I have is that I have real & true friends who stand by my side. The disadvantages is that I am alone because the Left Hand Path is a lonely path. However, if you have friends & allies, you are not lonely. As a Ronin and Lone Wolf, I choose to be alone to think and work alone.

What about your review of “Piercing the Darkness” caught Rosemary Sahjaza’s attention? How long have you been corresponding with her?

Rosemary Sahjaza told me she loved my review on “Piercing the Darkness” and she wanted me to get interviewed by an Alternative Magazine and it is my very first interview. It might have been three to four days or more. I am not sure. However, she is a sweetheart and a great friend. What inspired you to read Bram Stoker's “Dracula” at such a young age? What images were evoked in your mind both times you perused it?

The images evoked in my mind as a kid were that I wanted to be Dracula in my own way because I considered him to be a Hero and Antihero to me.

It hasn’t changed much that the Vampire was an Antihero to me even though I never knew what an Antihero was. I found Dracula fascinating as an Antihero more than a Villain.

Can you describe what the term “Antihero” means to you? In your opinion, what makes Dracula an interesting antihero rather than villain?

To me, An Antihero is an individual or a character who lacks the ways of the traditional hero. The Antihero expands in all genres.

I find Dracula in some adaptations as a Byronic Hero. A Byronic Hero is mysterious, darkly inclined yet alluring, and sometimes moody.

As an antihero, he is an individual who does things the traditional hero doesn’t do, and does things on his terms, no matter how terrible the problem is.

In what ways did Anne Rice's novels speak to you, as well as to so many others, when they were first published?

Lestat is a character I can understand because of his rebellious nature, and more. Also, I read “Morbius the Living Vampire” (Spider-Man), a Pseudo Vampire created by Science. It has been years since they were published, but I was an adolescent in the 1980s (I was born in 1972). I saw ”The Lost Boys” (1987) and read the novel version during that time. I was a huge fan because of the Punk style Vampires and the Soundtrack too. “Vamp” (Grace Jones) was hilarious.

What interviews in “Piercing the Darkness” particularly inspired you to research vampires and Vampyre Subculture in greater detail?

I don’t remember too much about the interviews, but the chapter “The Tao of the Vampire” spoke to me because I wanted to learn the ways of the Living Vampyre. From the TOV (Temple of the Vampire) and more. I desire to learn about the Living Vampyre from a Left Hand Path perspective.

Did you hear of Temple of the Vampire as a result of reading “The Tao of the Vampire”? In your opinion, what’s the most interesting thing about this group?

I read about Temple of the Vampire in a book called “The Vampire Book” by J. Gordon Melton when I was researching Vampyre Occult Movements. “The Tao of the Vampire” was the best thing that ever happened to me. The most interesting thing of this concept, some people can be Vampyres if they know to control their natures and their hunger. The ones who found themselves are the most beautiful and powerful individuals in their own right. Their knowledge and philosophies have made them more valuable on their own terms.

Do you know if "The Vampire Book" is still available? When it comes to the history of Vampyre Occult Movements, how knowledgeable would you consider J. Gordon Melton?

I do have a copy of the third edition of the “Vampire Book” and it might be on Amazon.com. He has done a lot of research to this book. I read a few articles in the encyclopedia that intrigues me and it is fascinating. I remember him on the documentary “Vampires: Thirst for the Truth (1996).” I might read it again and do a review on this book in the future.

When it comes to covering vampire culture and lifestyle without stereotyping or distortion, how thorough is “Vampires: Thirst for the Truth (1996)”?

It was spectacular and specific even though it was 1996. I enjoyed the documentary then and I enjoy it in the present.

Did you discover the Left Hand Path around the same time as vampire lore and cinema? Where are the obvious connections?

I discovered Vampire Folklore & Cinema at the age of ten, yet I discovered Satanism in 1987-1988 when Geraldo Rivera (I loathe him) made a mock documentary called “Devil Worship: Exposing Satan’s Underground.” This made me explore the Left Hand Path much more. I got on the Left Hand Path in 1995 since I read Anton Szandor LaVey’s “The Satanic Bible”. I adopted other Philosophies to understand myself more (Satanism, Luciferianism & Sinisterism).

From my perspective, The Left Hand Path and Vampyre Subculture have some similarities, it depends on the individual. In my experience, I find Vampyrism and Left Hand Path are Dark Philosophies to a certain degree, yet Darkness DOES NOT EQUATE EVIL. In other words, it is up the individual’s ambitions if they want to combine Both philosophies.

If darkness is not equate evil, what is darkness to you as opposed to mainstream perceptions?

Darkness is a part of us, no matter anybody says because some people choose to deny it.

From my perspective, Darkness is the other half of the balance factor (Yin/Yang). Darkness can’t exist without the Light, they are opposites to each other. Basically, Embracing the Darkness will help the individual find the beauty in the Night and much more.

The Mainstream rejects Darkness because of Society’s obsession to the Light. Monotheism had a strong hand to People from keeping them away from the Darkness mostly through fear, shame & guilt. Using the concept of Good vs. Evil, needing a Savior to keep Individuals away from the Darkness, which is Wrong on so many levels. I believe in “to each their own” and individuals have a right to know who & what they are as a human being or more. Denying the Darkness will not make the individual whole, but Embracing the Darkness will make you whole.

I recall Geraldo Rivera’s documentary about so-called devil worshiping cults. It was an obvious attempt to increase ratings. Can you recall other details about the “satanic panic” generated by this show and others at the time?

Rivera and many others stereotyped Satanism based on what’s happening in the media, which are complete nonsense. They accuse us of Devil Worship, and other stuff I won’t repeat because it disgusts me. We don’t recruit others. This quote says it all:

“Satanists are born, not made.” ~Anton Szandor LaVey

It has been years since I watched this special and I respect the Left Hand Path philosophers rather than the so called experts because the “Experts” lie through their teeth to discredit Satanism, but Satanism is NOT going away. NEVER.

Furthermore, the media sensationalized murderers like Richard Ramirez and Ricky Kasso, who were painted as "typical Satanists". Is this another method of discrediting Satanism?

They are NOT Satanists because Ramirez, Kasso and many others like them are Criminals. They are a disgrace to Satanism.

How would you explain the differences between Satanism, Luciferianism and Sinisterism?

Satanism is a religion and philosophy founded by Anton Szandor LaVey (1930-1997) that is based on the teachings of Friedrich Nietzsche, Ayn Rand etc., with the use of Satan as an Archetype for the individual to express proudly from an Atheistic perspective. There is NO God, No Devil, etc., and Satanists are their own Gods.

Luciferianism is a religion that venerates Lucifer, but not in a Judeo-Christian sense because Lucifer is NOT the Devil. Lucifer is the Light Bringer that brings knowledge and true freedom to those who wanted it.

Some people think that Satan and Lucifer are the same being, but it is not. Mostly, through the propaganda of Monotheism, it has been going on for thousands of years. In Luciferianism, Some are atheists because of the Archetype aspect and some are theists because some believe is a real anthropological being or a God.

Sinisterism is a concept created by Thomas LeRoy of The Sect of the Horned God. Sinisterism is an Individual who walks the Left Hand Path on their own terms.

Can you provide additional information about Thomas LeRoy and The Sect of the Horned God; how long they’ve existed and their contributions to the occult world?

The Sect of the Horned God stared on November 1, 2011 as a Left Hand Path school of thought and knowledge. It is an educational system for the Left Hand Path that uses philosophy, mythology, psychology and occult research to teach and reach the goal of Self-Deification (Becoming our own God, Goddess, etc). http://www.thesectofthehornedgod.com/

What was it about “The Satanic Bible” that appealed to you personally?

Anton Szandor LaVey’s “The Satanic Bible” was the most influential book and helped me to understand Satanism and the basics of the Left Hand Path. I read it in 1995, and embraced the philosophy along with other Left Hand Path philosophies. It has been 29 years since I’ve been on the Left Hand Path and I am proud of it.

What writings by Anton LaVey have you read altogether?

“The Satanic Bible” (1969), “The Satanic Witch” (1971), “The Satanic Rituals” (1972), “The Devil’s Notebook” (1992), “Satan Speaks” (1998).

I love the books by Anton Szandor LaVey because it is self-help for Satanists and people starting out of the Left Hand Path.

Since you’ve read all of Anton LaVey’s writings, aside from “The Satanic Bible”, which one did you find to be the most informative and why?

“The Devil’s Notebook”. The Reason why is that I enjoyed him telling his own truth in his own way. The topics range from Satanism and other subjects and doesn’t hold back.

My memory recalls that “The Devil's Notebook” covers a wide range of topics. Which of them struck you as the most personally relatable to you as a reader of left-hand path literature?

The Chapters in “The Devil’s Notebook called “By Any Other Name”; p. 33-34 “Nonconformity: Satanism’s Greatest Weapon”; p. 63-65. “How To Be God (Or The Devil)”; p. 66-67.

Certain genres have been targeted as being responsible for the negativity in the world. Do you think people who single them out are misinformed or intentionally spreading false information?

Most of the Great Works of Music has been accused of being the works of the Devil because of the jealousy of Mainstream Religions and So-Called Authoritarian Figures. The Tritone is considered the Devil’s Chord, which is used by many Classical Artists to Modern Rock and Metal Musicians. The atmosphere of the music is seductive and scary, depending on the individual. In other words, The Devil makes the best music.

The misinformed and the ignorant love to control the masses, but the individual finds their own way and judges for themselves.

Do you have any favorite bands you've been listening to a lot lately? How do they relate to you?

K.I.S.S., Black Sabbath, Ozzy Osbourne, Mercyful Fate/King Diamond, Coven, Queen, Vixen, Winger, Evanescence, Cradle of Filth, Fastway (“Trick or Treat” Soundtrack 1986), Billy Idol, Lita Ford, Joan Jett & The Blackhearts, Warlock (Doro Pesch), INXS, Bauhaus, Bon Jovi, The Runaways, Fields of the Nephilim, Dark Funeral, Infected Rain, Within Temptation, Inkkubus Sukkubus, The Go-Gos, Faun, Butcher Babies, Gorgoroth, Celtic Frost, Tiamat, Nox Arcana, Anton Szandor LaVey, etc.

My list is extensive and most of my choices are Darkly Inclined, Gothic with Some Dark Classical. I do relate to them because I saw them within me when I Embraced the Darkness since I was nine and I did not realize it. I see myself in the music mostly understanding what the artist went through to a certain degree. In other words, my path was growing since this music came into my life and I never looked back.

There was a recent episode of “satanic panic” in Jackson, Tennessee when locals attempted to prevent a local metal festival from taking place (Tennessee Metal Devastation Music Fest 2023). Nevertheless, the organizers of the festival fought back and prevailed. They spread the word on social media and appeared on television, and the festival went ahead as planned. Why do you think some people are still afraid of metal and other genres of music today?

People are afraid of the unknown and the Devil makes the greatest music. They still accuse Metal and other music genres to be the work of the Devil. The Tritone or the Devil’s Note has been used for centuries since Classical music, Blues, Rock and Roll to Metal. Besides, the Devil will have his Due.

Give examples of songs of any genre that best utilized the Tritone, along with a brief description of the impact they had on you when you first heard them.

Primus’ “South Park” theme: I heard this theme so many times, but I never the tritone was in it until now. Great Theme.

“The Simpsons”: I watched the Simpsons until I stopped watching Television for over ten years in 2011. Very catchy.

“The Munsters”: I find the soundtrack great, but Season 2 was better.

“The Twilight Zone”: The theme was sublime to me over the years, but it was eerie as well. I enjoyed it.

Marilyn Manson’s “The Beautiful People”: The Music was great and in your face.

The “Pink Panther” theme: Classical theme since my childhood throughout the years.

Metallica’s “Enter Sandman”: The music was everything, and it was a rocking masterpiece.

Jimi Hendrix’s “Purple Haze”: His Mastery on the Guitar is legendary and powerful when he used the tritone in his music.

Did you decide to become a vampire at a particular point, or does your research continue?

I never knew about the Vampyre Subculture until the early 1990s when “Vampire: The Masquerade” came out. However, I was fascinated with the terminology “Living Vampyre” when I was reading the Marvel Comic Series “Morbius: The Living Vampire” that was featured in Spider-Man in 1971. As an adolescent, I looked up the organization “Temple of the Vampire” but I never joined them; however, I kept researching Folkloric Vampires and the Vampire Subculture throughout the years. I read Michelle Belanger’s “The Psychic Vampire Codex” in the early 2000s, and I enjoyed it.

As a Vampyre, I prefer the terminology Living Vampyre because my studies are into the Left Hand Path philosophy and Sorcery. My research in the Vampire was since the age of nine, my Left Hand Path philosophies started in 1995, and it continues to the present into the future.

How helpful was “The Psychic Vampire Codex” to your studies?

It taught me about ethics, embracing who and what you are as a Vampyre, and honor yourself when it comes to your individual nature.

Are you familiar with The Satanic Temple or the documentary released in 2019 about them, “Hail Satan”? What do you think that they’re taking on fundamentalist Christian groups and the United States government?

I NEVER saw the documentary personally. The Satanic Temple is a different story all together. I am NOT a part of that group because my philosophy comes from Anton Szandor LaVey (ChurchofSatan.com) and it has been here longer than TST. If they wish to shake up the Religious Right, I don’t care. However, I wish they would do it differently.

Did “The Book of Secrets” by Temple House Sahjaza contribute to your understanding of vampire and Vampyre culture?

“The Book of Secrets” is a book I don’t have a copy of. However, House Sahjaza is unique in their own way, and their contributions are marvelous to describe. Vampire Folklore & Vampyre Subculture hold their own definitions and descriptions on what the Vampyre expresses about themselves and more.

With your years of study of Vampyres and the Left Hand Path, do you believe you’ve gained enough knowledge to write your own book or series of books? Would you be interested in writing about vampire lore or vampire cinema?

I wish. However, I still have a lot to learn before I write a book about my experiences. It is a maybe. The other topic is a maybe. The reason that everything I wanted to write has been done, and I want to be original with my writings.

Would you like to contribute in any other ways to occult communities locally, nationally and internationally?

I am not sure where to begin. I write book reviews on my Facebook page. I read, study, research and apply everything I learned to see what I can do.

-Dave Wolff

Interview with vocalist and poet Natasa Nikolic by Dave Wolff (second interview)

Photo by Christian Persson

Interview with Natasa Nikolic by Dave Wolff

From 2009 to 2019 you were the keyboardist and soprano vocalist of the Swedish symphonic death metal band Tragederia. What impact do you believe they had on underground metal while they were together? Have you been doing anything musically since they disbanded?

Hm, I wish I knew if we had an impact; that would be interesting. During that period I think we managed to contribute and give something new to the scene and also managed to reach out to an audience in other places thanks to Deviants Underground Radio and Asphyxium zine who helped spread the word about us. Since then many things have happened and I feel like the world is a very different place. For some time I was experimenting with a band, but the timing was wrong, and musically it was something completely different. It was very cool to have been able to try something new and be forced out of your comfort zone, but I didn’t continue with that project. I got an update from them a while ago so I will try to keep in touch.

How far do you believe your work with Tragederia transcended boundaries?

Lyrically, we started with these epic style texts which focused a lot on history and strife and later we transcended into something that is more the way I imagine many death bands were focusing in when I started coming into the local scene, a more straightforward approach to lyric-writing. As a band we strove to be progressive and it was important to keep track of our own development, but if would be strange to try to define exactly how much and if we managed to transcend boundaries. In the overall approach we had many ideas.

What historical topics did you and Tragederia study, and how did they relate to your lyrics?

We had themes such as the crusades, witch hunts, human greed and suffering, war... Later more personal themes. Our old lyricist devoured everything that had to do with history so I think it was easy to write lyrics. We had, in the end, maybe over a hundred texts that were never made into songs. It was useful to be able to draw one's own interpretation into the sound. It's the trickiest part and as musicians and humans we simply have a hard time when our own approach isn't deemed a good fit. Like, what do you mean I shouldn't sing like this? Classical musicians don't have that luxury of freely interpreting but they cannot mask if they lack the technical skills so they have to force themselves to master their instrument.

Deviants Underground Radio is a name I haven’t heard in the longest time. This net radio show played a significant role in assisting unsigned underground bands, but unfortunately it imploded due to a number of factors. Can you recall how often the band was broadcast?

I think we got a good amount of airtime. Some moments I still remember very vividly; it was a time to chill and enjoy new and old music, joke and just live for the nighttime. I would log on late in the evening and stick around for an hour. I'm still a night person but because of a different schedule nowadays I usually get up at the crack of dawn.

What is your opinion of Deviants Underground Radio's dedication to supporting unsigned bands who didn't have as many opportunities to be heard?

They were always dedicated to the musicians and the fans, giving their time to listen, hang out online and showcase anything new that came their way. I don't know when they started the station but my feeling was always that it was a welcoming environment and thanks to them, we reached out to many new people in the Tennessee area and beyond. I also have to mention the people around Deviants who made everything into a whole experience, I still follow them and try to keep up to date. It would be fun to visit them one day.

When you and Tragederia stopped working together, what band were you experimenting with? What were some of the differences between their music and that of your previous band? What did you mean by being forced out of your comfort zone? Did you decide to part ways with them due to those timing concerns?

The band I sang with is Dagothar. They play traditional doom which is not a genre I'm familiar with, so to even rehearse I had to change the way I sing, from basic technique to accentuating the lyrics with grunts and things like that. It was extremely insightful and a great learning experience. Since it was not an option to plan my work around a band, I thought it was best to continue to put my energy elsewhere.

When you hooked up with Dagothar, what was the task of tailoring your vocal style to their music? Were you able to record anything with the band or did you part company before you had the opportunity to record? Is this band still active today?

Since they had such a specific idea of what they wanted to achieve, it was like trying to fit my voice into a specific genre mold. They were working with tributes for a couple of bands and the first part was listening to new music and getting to know the style. Technique-wise it was about expanding and perfecting the chest voice sound which has mostly been something of an impossible task for me, it’s not nearly as intuitive as the classical technique. I could sound nasal, wailing, let out grunts and I would say there was mostly a clear picture of what was accepted to make their sound. On the whole it’s a fun genre in a way, it just doesn’t sound fun and a common theme is death. I never got around to recording anything with them, it was more trying to learn the genre to be able to sing at rehearsals. As far as I know, they are active and they have recorded some demos.

What are some of the ways you perceive the world around you to be a completely different place? Since you have been writing lyrics and poems for some time, will any future writing reflect your views on all the changes you have seen?

Since the pandemic my feeling is that more things in society are uncertain. Not only in regards to health, but will we be able to retire, will politicians stop playing with our lives and being irresponsible? Despite that, I would like my future poems to reflect something hopeful.

How much did the Covid pandemic affect your sense of uncertainty about society? Many people seem to believe that nothing changes when it comes to politics, while others believe that some things have improved. What are the points where your poems fall between these two mindsets?

Well, I think it has showed politicians can make those quick changes while at the same time proving that – no, we obviously can’t do two things at the same time, since that is a general criticism of many policy-related issues today. Maybe let’s try to keep and go back to a standard of living which seems lost instead of thinking big because it doesn’t seem to work. We never had any restrictions here and it makes me annoyed at the people who showed a more selfish side, like travelling abroad to places like Thailand which is super popular here. Who really needs to travel to the other side of the world for vacation? This even though for many people in Sweden, the idea of a really nice holiday is a small house or cottage without running water. What is needed are just the essentials and surrounded by nature of course. I can see the charm, there’s something truly romantic in that.

Do you observe the same level of uncertainty regarding the future outside of Sweden based on your correspondence with people in other countries?

I guess it depends on the person, but some people who are not as dependent on the outside world have been grateful to be able to live and manage thanks to the land and their own animals etc. Now with war raging in Europe again, we are seeing more of that uncertainty with the influx of people fleeing from Ukraine. I have had the opportunity to work with some amazing Ukrainians and I think about them a lot. Their world has been turned upside-down but many of them are making such an effort and I hope Sweden takes a notice of their skills and knowledge because now we get economists, interpreters, doctors and teachers coming here. For the first time I have wished to be in the position of being able to provide jobs to be able to make even more of an impact.

Are there any serious long-term collaborations that have resulted from your work with Ukrainian refugees?

The nature of the work is such that I have little possibility to keep in touch. There are so many people who need help when coming to a new country that you become quite stressed and simply restrain yourself after a while, otherwise it's hard to keep up. My goal is still to try to do right by every person that I meet and to be able to help, as little or as much as someone needs, it's a small comfort. I am always impressed with everyone I meet and on a systemic and personal level I hope for the best for them, whatever their goals and wishes are when the war ends.

Why do you believe that the simplicity of nature has appealed to bands for so many years? How does it inspire romantic feelings in people to the point that they write songs and lyrics in an attempt to capture those feelings?

Nature controls and rules us in a way that will never seize to amaze and awe us as humans. It’s bold, doesn’t apologize and can kill us all. Closeness to nature and being in nature being a goal in itself is very strong here in the Nordic countries. To accept nature and all that it does, enjoy it and being annoyed at it is and coming to a full circle seems to be a goal if not and art. My relationship with nature as mostly consisted of trying to avoid it simply because it’s flawed, it’s not the way I want it to be. I remember talking about a dead lake which had become something of a tourist attraction in the southwest of Sweden and admiring the beauty of the water when my friend exclaimed “But it’s such a pity, that colour means that nothing can survive there” which to me made it a perfect place to swim! I am the person that would jump out as soon as I feel something on me, completely horrifying. And don’t we always want to control nature and make it into something different, more to our liking?

How have you expressed these thoughts in any recent verses that you have written?

I think I have focused more on writing something different and rather these thoughts have been relinquished through conversation with different people. Maybe it’s best to not focus on more positive themes, otherwise it would just be the same old style.

How would you like your future poems to reflect a hopeful outlook? Do you have any ideas for topics you would like to write about?

I have written about love and longing before, but mostly those poems have been kept in the closet. The task now is to find a new style, language… Something to reflect new goals, goals for self-improvement (oh, the goals!) whereas the topic before was more about trying to stay alive. How about love of music, or an onomatopoetic piece trying to describe the sound of different genres? Now I feel it’s easier to balance the different sides of myself, and if you don’t like a certain part, well who cares? Life is too short to stick to the negative parts, but it may be difficult to make the transition for real.

Can you describe the style in which you wrote your older poems to convey love and longing? Is it your intention to keep these writings in the closet or will you release some of them at some point in the future?

It was very naïve and straight to the point, so maybe not very good in a way. I want to bring more diverse things to the table, so I will try to not keep those poems in the closet. I feel like other poets working with AEA zine are better at incorporating more of themselves into the poetry. It’s good to try to read lyrics separately because you don’t get the same feeling when listening to them. Music changes the text and it can make it less honest and raw. If I manage to introduce old themes and write them so that someone can see themselves and relate to a feeling I will be happy. Nowadays I can appreciate new kinds of artists as long as I can see their story in the lyrics.

How will music contribute to your development of another writing style? How will language and subject matter affect this process?

With music, it’s good to try to read lyrics separately because you don’t get the same feeling when listening to them. Music changes the text and it can make it less honest and raw so music takes the edge off. If I manage to introduce old and new themes and write them so that someone can see themselves and relate to a feeling I will be happy. At the same time I don’t want to lose the horror style. Nowadays I can appreciate new kinds of artists as long as I can see their story in the lyrics. I don’t really feel the pressure to listen to a certain kind of music anymore so I feel free to let more genres inspire me, with jazz being the exception!

Another thing that has been a goal is to write more in Swedish, I look up to Månegarm in that department. Despite the fact that this interview is in English I firmly believe we have to preserve our own languages and in an active way. Granted, language changes but we mustn’t forget that we have something very valuable in our mother tongue that is worth keeping and cherishing. I recommend the book Tingo by Adam Jacod de Boinod.

Are you seeking a band to contribute lead or backing vocals to these days? In your opinion, what kind of band would your lyrics and vocals be suitable for, whether you have been looking or not?

If I would join a band it would probably be as a lead vocalist, mostly because I wouldn't really want to share the vocal part. The most fun part was always being able to do your own thing, not so much being in the centre. I would also be careful because of the environment and the community as a whole, it can be sexist but one person can't change a whole culture. I would want to feel able to express myself and be free to tell my story. The dynamics within the group would have to be good, the right age span, good communication, I'm obviously picky. Maybe some kind of doomy goth sound would work, my scene presence is fitting for that, I don't like jumping around on stage. I'm not necessarily a fan of building the sound to the point of expanding it and more with every album and making it sound like it has 50 layers of instruments.

Have you considered or would you consider compiling a book with your written work?

I haven't, I cannot imagine compiling my own poems, it's like listening to your own voice which I still find almost embarassing, but maybe with some help. Good idea!

Nikolic's poems can be read at this section of Asphyxium zine

Interview with Natasa Nikolic of TRAGEDERIA by Dave Wolff

Full Length Review: TRAGEDERIA Heresiarch by Devin Joseph Meaney

-Dave Wolff

Interview with author Ryan Bartek (Return To Fortress Europe, The Big Shiny Prison Volume III) by Dave Wolff

Second interview with author Ryan Bartek (Return To Fortress Europe, The Big Shiny Prison Volume III)

In conjunction with Anomie Press, you released “Return To Fortress Europe”, the third volume of your series “The Big Shiny Prison”, following “The Big Shiny Prison” (Anomie Press, 2016) and “Fortress Europe (The Big Shiny Prison Volume II)” (Anomie Press, 2016). It's been a long time since I interviewed you in 2015; what have you been up to and what motivated you to write the third volume?

It's crazy to think we are this deep in the future already. A lot has happened since then. In 2015 I was doing the grind-death-thrash band Vulture Locust and helping run a house venue in Portland. Once that ended I set my sights on launching Anomie Press to put out all my works. In 2016 the first print editions of “The Big Shiny Prison”, “Fortress Europe” and “Anticlimax Leviathan” all came out. 2017 came and I began living on the road permanently, even though just in Portland. Basically to fund everything -- sending the books to libraries worldwide and my extreme metal band SkullMaster + our album -- I said fuck paying rent and simply lived in a van. Upgraded to a school bus eventually. Then put out another book called “To Live & Die on Zug Island”. Three years of working full time and dumping all my money in these projects led to 2020. Covid hit. I was homeless through the entire pandemic. Managed to put out the new record in July 2020. But was all about survival at that point. I'm immune compromised and Covid could mean death so I was totally isolated living in a tent. I was 100% homeless. Couldn't work, couldn't risk it. I finally got housing and a full time job again fairly recently and I was in the clear to release this new book, the finale to the "Prison Trilogy." It has been complete since 2018 but only available as a free PDF download. I just had to wait for the stars to align. It comes out Tuesday October 10th. Review copies have been sent everywhere possible. Now it's just wait and see what happens. I'll be shipping copies to libraries in September. All my books are wildly different but I think this new one has some of my best writing I ever accomplished. It's not as vast as the others in the series, it's slimmer and sharper. It is more about the travel aspect whereas the other two were heavy with band interviews. This one goes straight to the source of my Beat Generation influence. It makes perfect sense in context to the other two books in the series. It works as a standalone title too.

I remember you participating in Vulture Locust around 2015 as well as writing your Prison Trilogy early volumes. Do you know how much material they released before you started SkullMaster? Do you still have any of it available?

With Vulture Locust I was the main guy so I feel comfortable resurrecting it in the future. Did vocals and guitar. I have 60+ guitar only demo songs ready to go when the time comes. It's basically just me and whatever drummer I work with, I handle bass on the records. The live lineup fell apart by 2015 -- by the end it was a two man show. The last drummer had issues I won't delve into. I don't hold anything against him but can't work with him anymore. It was a mix of death, thrash and black with a grindcore basis. You can find all our albums on Archive.org or posted on the Facebook page. I put out a live record of Vulture Locust in 2020 called "Pandemic Destiny." SkullMaster was a group effort and we recorded and released our debut album "VoidWalkers" as a free download in July 2020. It's the best produced album I ever did. A mix of death, black, thrash and classic heavy metal -- no grindcore involved. The band had its run with many live shows but the drummer quit and moved to another state. We were a three piece and decided to let it die. The bassist is now in a heavy metal band called Manthus people should check out.

What was the impact of being homeless and living on the road on the release of SkullMaster's album, the writing and publication of your new books, and the operation of Anomie Press? Did you find it difficult to juggle all that work?

In order for everything to happen I had to somehow fund the massive bill, and the only way was avoiding rent. I was able to keep my scant possessions at the band practice space and just live out of a van for quite some time -- May 2017 until January 2020. Every paycheck I kept funneling into the endless money pit. Kept just enough for myself to function and still go to concerts and movies. By 2020 I was finally saving up again to rent something, and then Covid erupted. I couldn't work, had to stay away from people and keep outdoors in the fresh air. Couldn't use public toilets, was handling cash and coins with gloves and spraying them off with bleach water. Eating only canned goods and spraying them off with bleach water too. Had to mask up and wear a scarf around my face like a ninja. I wasn't taking any chances. People thought I was excessive and paranoid but for me it was life or death. I made it to the vaccine by the skin of my teeth financially. Covid killed my aunt and I was left with a little bit of an inheritance I used to avoid working as long as I could. All of 2020 and 2021 was spent living in a tent or a vehicle. I was full blown homeless through the lowest points of Covid. Portland is known for its rugged street world and I was trapped in it. Luckily I had a tent spot away from all the addicts and street crazies. Right near private property where no one came. Had my own tiny slice of nature. In that Gulf of time I read every book and saw every last movie I ever wanted to see. Started a YouTube channel in late 2021 to talk about Magick & the Occult. Produced 100+ videos, then things got kind of weird. I had something of a nervous breakdown out of the blue. It wasn't very pretty to say the least. But by February 2022 I started piecing myself back together. Started working again, saving money. Realized I had a book to put out but had to get my mental health in shape first. All of 2022 was like self rehabilitation. Returning to the world now that Covid was over -- or at least everyone was vaccinated, I mean. From August 2022 until early 2023 I was searching for a place to live. Every day on Craigslist and nothing comes. Drove me up the wall. You're never really homeless until you desperately want to go back indoors but there is nowhere to go. I had taken all I could -- years of this, literally. Soon as I got housing in March 2023 I started plotting the release of this new book “Return to Fortress Europe”. Worked like mad on a final draft revision, set it up for publication, sent review copies everywhere. And here we are today. Still have indefinite housing and full time job is holding fine. Back to the world, back to concerts. No more street.

Having spent so much time traveling to interview for your series and experiencing so many hardships, how does it feel to be living in your own home again?

It feels weird to be honest. I'm so used to absorbing the natural environment and climate that being in a controlled temperature setting seems more artificial than ever. I became so used to sleeping outdoors in below freezing conditions that I never even considered what I was doing anymore. I felt more natural than ever. The first book I was on the road for nearly a year and never once got a hotel or hostel. The second book in three months of Europe I think maybe two days of hostels. The third book was the same, except for when I became gravely ill because I contracted West Nile Virus. I crawled to a hostel at that point. I should have been in the hospital honestly, but there I was in a foreign country with no insurance. I'm not sure what Slovenia would have done with me...

As you mentioned, your third volume of "The Big Shiny Prison" is shorter but sharper than your previous volumes. What are the ways in which this is the case? Who did you interview for volume three and what did you personally learn from them?

This new book is shorter and sharper in terms of page length. It covers a longer period of time than “Fortress Europe” but I compacted the story. Truth is so much more happened, but much of that was a private story I felt should stay unwritten. You could say these extra tales were more romantic in nature, haha. Also protestor shenanigans... The things I learned from people were intense as far as their countries were concerned. Mainly about how their societies were crumbling, the huge gap between the young and old, the massive gap between the youth on the internet and the youth without. It was a reinforcement on how the Internet has changed everything. This time I stuck with tons of bands few have heard of outside their own countries. The most well-known band in there is probably Corpus Christi from Portugal. He gave a classic black metal sort of interview. No shortage of Satan there, haha.

Many of the comments you find are dialogue from random people I met along the way. I found it kept things more realistic to get totally unknown voices from the man on the street, you could say. As for other bands that make an appearance in Romania I met with experimental death metal band Krepuskul, classic heavy metal band Heavy Duty and the more metalcore Deliver The God. In Portugal was black metal band Corpus Christii but also the doom band Process of Guilt. In Greece I wandered into the thrash band Convixion, also Sakis Fragos the former executive producer of Headbangers’ Ball MTV Greece. In Italy I spent a chunk of time with Gabbo from Orange Man Theory and Mantra. Got a great crusty anarchist interview from Cedro of Post Fata Resurgo. The topics all these people detail are so varied it is difficult to summarize. But the overall theme all of them spoke of was the intense decay of society. How all their countries were collapsing in so many ways, how the European Union itself was a mess of a construction. 2012-2013 were intense times of protest and sparks were flying everywhere. The Occupy wave and the Take the Square protests were still very fresh. Everyone has political and social opinions to address in the book, and we got to the nitty gritty of so much. It is quite eye opening the things related. I don't want to spoil it all for the potential reader. Greece is among the poorest and most problematic countries in the European Union. Examining what has happened there as a microcosm shows the greater issues of the EU by proxy.

I also say the writing is sharper and slimmer in that I found ways to better express myself. Now I can compact in one brief sentence what may have taken me paragraphs to describe in the past. Sometimes less really is more.

Which common ideas, if any, did most of the bands and other individuals you interviewed for your series share regarding their view of their society and the world around them?

The common theme I found among all the people I interviewed was that their art was the one thing they believed in and, in many cases, the one thing keeping them sane. It did not matter the mode of expression, they all clung to their craft as an exit from mundane existence. Every artist seems to understand that they are trapped in a labyrinth. Some have found their exit point while others still search for the glowing exit sign. It is through art that their struggles are redeemed. Another common thread amongst everyone is that not a single person trusts their government. Everyone knows they are subjected to a rat race. From the artist to the common man, everyone realizes they are being played. Not everyone believes in the same solutions, but everyone instinctively knows they are pawns of a rotten game. I think this understanding holds the underground community together more than the types of music they play or the kind of media they use to express themselves. We are all seeking a way out. Some excel at this, others burn out or lose their minds. I am grateful to have met so many brilliant individuals throughout my travels. Their collective refusal to give in only added to my own fire.

During the period of 2012 to 2013, how intense was the atmosphere of protest in Europe? Tell us about your experience visiting Greece and investigating the Bohemian Grove while researching volume three.

The atmosphere of protest was fever pitch. There were actions and demonstrations going on in every city. Occupy started in late 2011 and I was extremely dialed into news reports, websites, Twitter, blogs, etc. Wild things were occurring all over the world. I really wish I would have just kept a log to record everything, but it was such a vast enterprise. Even though the Occupy encampments were broken up after a short period, it's not like the people went away. They just adopted different slogans and independent approaches. Smashing up the camps just created autonomous individuals. Talking about the Bohemian Grove is a mouthful. To even try explaining what it is to someone who does not know is like a two hour conversation. In the new book is a chapter called “Welcome to Monte Rio” where I travel to its front gate and get chased away by the cops. That was a wild weekend where I met many groups who were actively going to be protesting it that summer. I also travel to Occupy Oakland and San Francisco, and write about the final eviction of Occupy San Francisco. When the time came it was I and four people holding down the fort. The Grove protest ended up being a success. The day of the Cremation of Care ritual about 1500 protestors showed up, made a presence and held an impromptu match. Russia Today did a story on it and millions of people saw it. You can find the story on YouTube. Of course it is Russia Today, the propaganda arm of the Kremlin, so they are pushing the more fantastical rumored elements of The Grove. If people really want the true story of The Grove, it's all detailed in my “Welcome to Monte Rio” chapter. As for Greece, I consider the chapter about it in my new book one of the best slabs of writing I ever accomplished. It's another mouthful that's difficult to relate in a few sentences. Athens was one of the most magickal places I have ever been. It has an atmosphere all its own that you just soak up as part of your own being. It's like a gritty, rotting New York glazed over with a touristy sheen that's built to look like the ancient world. The entire place is alive in a special way. Henry Miller wrote a book called “The Colossus of Maroussi” about his eight month travel there during the early days of World War 2. I must recommend this book to anyone reading this interview. He nails it better than I ever could. Most people consider that book to be exaggerated remembrances, but Miller speaks the truth. The magick of Greece is all consuming. You simply want to get lost in the country for years. I seriously am considering going back there to do one final travel book, but solely on Greece. Then I'm sure people will say I'm ripping off the Maroussi book, but oh well. I can't imagine never returning, and I'm getting old. I feel the itch to travel again, but it's Greece or nothing. There is nowhere else in the world I would rather explore. Like always, I'm sure I'll end up doing it alone. Oh well. I'm used to it.

In the wake of your research for volume three, what have members of Occupy and other activist groups been doing? By your experience, how would you rate Bohemian Grove in comparison to what Russia Today and Alex Jones have said about it?

There is a lot of misinformation regarding the Grove out there. The main cause of our concern is that the rich and powerful are holding secret meetings, talks and seminars at a clandestine campground. Every summer this goes on for two weeks. To even begin explaining what else goes on there makes people look at you like a madman. Reality is stranger than fiction. Alex Jones and Russia Today push the narrative that the Cremation of Care ritual is literally a satanic cult activity. It is extremely creepy and audacious, but it's the last holdover of what the camp initially was. It was a live action theater camp created by writers and poets in the late 1800s. The owl statue and the Care ritual were part of the play. These days it's all that's left from the origin. The mega rich stumbled into it and by 1900ish effectively bought it out for themselves. Imagine something like a Burning Man festival stolen for the power elite. So what they are up to is extremely damaging to them politically if the average person were to find out. Controversy drives people out of office. Especially bible thumping politicians who are very homophobic yet are hanging out at a place notoriously ripe with gay prostitution. The goal of these protests was to shine a spotlight on this strange party and demand answers. But it is very difficult to get people to wrap their heads around. You start talking about a 40 foot owl statue and the Bush family and Rockefellers burning a human coffin while wearing KKK looking white sheet uniforms and people think you're insane. All I can say is research this yourselves. As for Occupy it spawned an entire generation of activists and endless activity. Black Lives Matter is the most recent example. It's the same wave. Last I checked it had the White House surrounded by tens of thousands. Washington DC renamed a major street leading to the White House as Black Lives Matter BLVD. Whenever I see BLM somewhere what I really read is OCCUPY. It changed the social discourse in this country. Now we're moving into new territory, mainly the social discussion on LGBTQ+ rights. That's the new powder keg. Wait until some homophobic cop bashes some drag show queen and they perish from their injuries. There you'll have the new George Floyd and Derek Chauvin.

Do you think occultism plays any kind of a role in what’s happening in today’s world as some people claim, or are these stories meant to explain what most of us don’t understand about what goes on behind closed doors?

What is interesting about Magick and occultism is you will get a different definition from anyone practicing it. I guess we have to talk about the "current" of occultism practiced, when it comes to pinpointing things. I think a lot of these bible thumping politicians are actually well versed in occult principles and many of the power elite are well educated. What really motivates them though is money, power, greed, status and narcissism. They will use any device at their disposal to keep these motivations growing. Do I think some of these people might have strange cults unto themselves? I wouldn't be surprised, to be honest, but I cannot say for certain. I think they are literally a cult unto themselves just by their interconnected tribes. They proceed like old world royalty would; they intermarry and make familial ties. They don't need to go through the trappings of Ceremonial Magick to get what they are after, which is chiefly money. But I'm sure many of them are studying this stuff and have interesting private book collections.

When musicians address what's happening in the world around them, do you see the artists leaving an impression on music fans in their countries?

Yes I believe this is true, so long as there is a message. I think everything you take in affects you. The underground is full of rehash, but every once in a while we get a lyricist like Jello Biafra, for example. The best lyrics crawl under your skin and blast hypocrisy to pieces. When a song inspires you to change your way of thinking, or change your behavior, we see this in action. Art always transforms. But it's a question of reach and exposure. I think every live show transforms someone ever so slightly. Sometimes it's a magnified process. This is why I always encourage artists to never give up, never surrender. Even if only a small handful are affected, you still are making an incremental change. Sometimes the greatest successes in history came from a small, amoebic start. Being an artist is like being a gardener, and music sows seeds.

I was also wondering what you thought of the murder of Sophie Lancaster, and any other hate crimes you may have heard of in which the victim was someone who looked different.

Yet another horrible, totally unnecessary event that never should have taken place. It's amazing to me the endless human stupidity out there. No matter how long humanity has existed still we have people who will assault others based on their dress. Running people over with cars for having colored hair. What I do know for certain though is that this has calmed down over the years. Having a colored Mohawk in the 1980s was wild and created extreme controversy. It just begged a fight to start. These days the kids are like “seen it, so what?” In the 90s when I was a teenager if we dressed weird we had to always be prepared for a fight. Now the jocks and preps are so used to seeing it they don't bat an eye. Like here in Portland, every kid has funny colored hair. So I think it's cooled out. But still, there's always some asshole looking for a fight. And mean rednecks and cruel jocks and terminal preppies haven't gone extinct. I'm just thrilled high school is over for me and I live in a place where no one cares what you look like. In Portland, no one is shocked by anything. Can't say the same for the rest of America, but at least the West Coast is more like this.

What are your thoughts on the January 6, 2021 riot at the White House? And your thoughts about how much or little a catalyst Donald Trump was for it?

I think Occupy was the catalyst for it. Without the huge wave of protests it kicked off and the examples it set, the right wingers who enacted January 6th never would have had the idea. I think that was the moment they picked up the left wing's “playbook”. Or at least their dim understanding of it. Trump was really the perfect guy to coagulate all these individuals together. I don't know who else could so expertly become their figurehead. He fed them what they wanted to hear while giving no solutions for years, and when his ego refused to admit defeat he sent them off like pawns to enact his wrecking ball. And a bunch of angry, duped, half-educated people swallowed his swill and attacked the White House for him, believing he was leading them on. But he wasn't, he was just hiding somewhere watching it on TV and posting about it on Twitter. He didn't even have the decency to lead them in person. It will be hard for these people to ignore that he simply walked away and left them to their fate, then distanced himself from them all. I think he lost a whole lot of faith that day. He broke their hearts. Was I surprised? Hell no. Why would you ever trust that guy?

After taking on the enormous task of writing these volumes, how do you feel about being compared to authors such as Henry Miller, Jack Kerouac, and Hunter S. Thompson? In your opinion, does your work have the same potential to make an impact as those by those authors?

I was inspired by all three, so it's hard to pretend their influence isn't prevalent in my writings. The difference though is my work is 100% real. Thompson and Miller exaggerated or lied about a great deal for the sake of making an exciting story. Kerouac was the most honest of the three, but by my age he was a conservative Catholic who hated hippies. It was Kerouac's trance writing and fascination with life that inspired me the most. He writes about the ecstasy he experiences internally more than the actual experiences he's having. Not to toot my own horn, but you are going to find far more exciting adventures in my books then you will in most Kerouac's work. He pretty much quit the road in his late 20's. I'm 42 now, in many ways I stayed on the road indefinitely. I'm ready for another long adventure too. By my age he was very closed off, hermit-like and seriously alcoholic. I'm more extreme now than I ever was as a teenager, or even in my 20s. I don't look very punk rock. I don't stand out in a crowd, don't have funny colored hair, but my ethos is hardline. I still have all these wild anarchic ideas and perceptions where others have mellowed out. Thompson was also burned out by my age too. Miller though, he ran away to Paris around 40 years old. It was in his 40s and 50s that he found himself. It's a pity so few know about him. Academics do, literary professors, college kids studying to be English majors, but not teenagers. He never had a movie though, that's the thing. And I think if he had that awareness he would be on the cancel culture chopping block right now. I think Tropic of Capricorn is one of the best books I ever read. I think Miller is the king and few measure up. Do I think I'll ever get the notoriety of these guys? Maybe one day when I'm long dead. If you put my stuff in front of its intended audience, they do read it. You know, I run an independent small press, all the news coverage I ever got was from zines like yours, or as a news blurb on the margins of bigger webzines. I've made it into print magazines here and there, but it's not like anyone is jumping up from the New York Times or Rolling Stone. I got my works into libraries all over the world, people have downloaded and read my books worldwide. I'm often surprised by how many people have heard of me when I do travel. But I've never had any big rock stars or major authors talk about me in interviews. It's when I croak and the word gets around that I'll get a bunch of tribute articles and obituaries. That's the moment I'll get accepted in some big way. I don't plan on dying anytime soon though, so I guess it's just underground until I kick the bucket. This new book has been sent for review everywhere possible. So let's see what happens. I don't expect to explode in popularity overnight anytime soon. I'm just going to keep doing what I do. Ignore the haters, stick to the positive. Plus I got way more music up my sleeve then just another grindcore record as Vulture Locust. The next band I do I will be lazar focused. I have an extreme metal album all worked out, a solid 15 tracks. I also have a 40 song punk album fleshed out. Plus another 60+ song Vulture Locust. Right now it's just get this book out and get my life in order. I've had quite a bumpy ride these past several years.

Have you ever considered writing a fourth volume of The Big Shiny Prison once everything else is in order? If you have, what sort of a book would it be? Would it be like the previous three or something different? What can you tell the readers about the next Vulture Locust project?

I ask myself this question a lot. Now that I have three books complete to showcase what I do, it makes things much easier when trying to book a writing tour. The support is there because people can see with their own eyes that I'm not a flake or a phony. When I was actively doing the first one, a lot of people ignored me or just didn't understand what I was doing. Having the first completed while booking Europe for its sequel made things easier. So I could literally go anywhere in the world and do another if I just wanted to interview metal and punk bands. But it's kind of “been there, done that”. Still, if I were ten years younger, I'd probably be eyeballing South America / Mexico for a metal book. I thought about doing a travel book interviewing Magick / Witchcraft / Occult people, but I'm not so sure how exciting it would turn out. I entertained doing one on Pro Wrestling, but what can I say or present there that hasn't already been done? If anything, I really want to do a full book on Greece as I mentioned earlier. I don't know if it would fit the motif of a fourth “Prison” book. Never say never though. I'm starting to feel the urge to want to travel again. Unlike the old days, I don't really have a place to go work on a manuscript afterwards. Finding somewhere to rent is harder than ever, especially if you don't have a job or car. I'll just end up broke and homeless somewhere. My network of key people got old, got married, had kids, or died young. The street is more street than it ever has been before. So the question is what is really worth it? What I know is that I am most hungry for performing live music again. But starting a band is a serious commitment and I don't want to waste anyone's time. I also do not feel like Portland is the place for me to do so. All my main people moved, my social circle is pitifully small these days. Lots of dumb drama through the years really poisoned the waters here, you could say. The last band I had SkullMaster was kind of my swansong for this town. We did quite a few shows and put out one solid, diverse album. I ask myself where to go? I want a fresh start somewhere. I'm kind of stuck here though. Despite everything, there are people I don't want to leave behind. Anyway, if it ends up being myself and a drum machine, so be it. I have 60+ tracks worked out for Vulture Locust with song titles. Continuing the same content as before -- protestor logic, conspiracies, grindcore staples. But a heavy emphasis on Sci-fi and technology turned nightmare. The theme is a glimpse into the future. The other music I have worked out is for a multi-genre extreme metal band and a punk rock project. The extreme metal band -- all the songs are five minutes or more, and the lyrics are like “Tales From The Crypt” stories about historical atrocities, monstrous creatures, torture devices. Think the lyrical urge of Iron Maiden but musically like a mix between Carcass, Immortal and Death. The punk project -- Lurking Strangers -- is a cursed band. Anyone ever attached to it has died or something horrible happened to. Or they moved to some other state. It's like if you took Dead Kennedys “Frankenchrist” and mixed it with Circle Jerks and The Dwarves with a touch of GG Allin. I really want to do this record badly. One album only -- 40+ tracks. I am confident it will live forever. I just need to find the right guys to pull it off.

Regarding the possibility of a fourth book, with cancel culture out of control and another sort of satanic panic happening in which religious communities are trying to stop local metal fests from being held as one did in Tennessee recently, I imagine more people would want to hear about it from a fan’s point of view etc.

Cancel Culture is a byproduct of technology. When all the little nobodies realized how to wield the power of social media, what was their major move? To delete people they didn't like. Funny how it wasn't to end starvation or help the homeless, or create a mutual aid society. It was take down the celebrity they hated. If my following were big enough I'm sure I'd be on that chopping block too. My books are filled with all kinds of statements & sentiments that would certainly enrage that crowd. But guess what? You cannot cancel someone like me. I have no record label, no book publisher, no TV show, no movie studio, no agent. I'm just a lone wolf, and I simply do not care what anyone thinks. In Portland, many people know about me and what I'm up to. I'm very misunderstood. I have people on my side, but I also have backlash. People who do not understand what I'm all about, or take issue with my work for whatever reason. My haters don't bother to read my books, they just hear one or two things and jump to conclusions. Yes I get dirty looks from would be Cancel Culture types. I've had overzealous punk rock kids try to claim I was some secret fascist. I got accused of being some wild sell out capitalist for putting my books in print. I've had bleeding heart hippies point their fingers at me like The Devil in their liberal West Coast Paradise. I got accused of this, that or the other. I got turned into a rumored Marquis de Sade, a reputed Black Magick Witch, and a homeless drug addict. At one point they even claimed me to be a hardcore Juggalo! Of course I am none of these things. I'm simply a guy who found out the bigger you get, the more they hate. The more you speak, the less they understand. The second money is involved, you become an instant sell out (never mind you never made a dime and dumped 40 grand into your career and gave it all away for free). But here I am, still standing after all the flack. I am so impervious I create a new word -- uncancellable.

What sort of an impact would you most like to leave on music and literature with your writing and your bands? What else do you have out worth mentioning?

I hope that my work continues to light a fire under the asses of those encountering it. I hope I inspire them to travel, to explore more kinds of music, to recognize the underground as the vast interconnected community it is. I hope I somehow am able to show there is a way out of their personal prisons. What I want for them is to escape. I want them to bust out and run. I've known many who tragically committed suicide or destroyed themselves. These books are created for those sort of folks -- to show the alternative. A better world is possible. As for the music, I just want to deliver the real deal. Say my peace through the lyrics. When a new Vulture Locust arrives it will have stellar production. Same with all the other bands. No more basement recordings. The other thing I wanted to mention -- two other books I did. "Anticlimax Leviathan" and "To Live & Die on Zug Island." I consider "Anticlimax Leviathan" my best book. It's about my life from 2002-2011. "To Live & Die on Zug Island" is about my life 1981-2002. They both connect like two halves of the same humongous work. You can find these books and everything else I've ever created on www.Archive.org -- just search my name, or band names, you'll find everything. It's all free download. Thanks for reading this interview!

Ryan Bartek's Soundcloud

Vulture Locust - Command Presence [Full Album 2015]

SkullMaster - "VoidWalkers" LP (Full Album 2020)

The Big Shiny Prison by Ryan Bartek

Fortress Europe by Ryan Bartek

Return To Fortress Europe by Ryan Bartek

-Dave Wolff